Friam

Re: Friam Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9

Classic

List

Threaded

4 messages Options

Benny Lichtner

Re: Friam Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9

Hi, all. Just want to respond to some of these points as I am very interested in meaning making.

It [the ability to read "gibberish"] does not demonstrate mysterious skill, it demonstrates a (perhaps mysterious) lack of skill. The real mystery, if there is one, is why a person so well trained in reading would be fooled by such a simple manipulation.

I do not see where the "lack of skill" is. Could you elaborate? What skill is it that we lack because of our ability to read "gibberish"? Is it the skill of identifying what is "gibberish" and what is not? The problem with "gibberish" is that you always have to put scare-quotes around it.

I have to ask why even an intelligent person can make some kind of sense out of ["]Gibberish.["] Something about our brains seems to Beg for Sense when there is none.

I suspect that were our brains not to "beg for sense," we would never be able to read any non-"gibberish." There are no hard rules for generating meaning, just some customs we use, and are used to, and break much of the time.

We prefer magical explanations because they do not require any effort.

Is it that we "prefer" magical explanations, or just that they are the first to come to mind, and are perfectly satisfactory explanations at that, so why look for others? If the audience were simultaneously presented with a magical and a non-magical explanation, I am not sure which would be preferred. It might have nothing to do with magicality. Maybe more to do with creativity, or realism, depending on who you are.

All Physicists are apparently insane because they intentionally look for difficult explanations.

The explanations that physicists look for are difficult by coincidence, I think. They look for explanations that fit their assumptions about knowledge and causality, and those explanations happen to be difficult, both to invent/discover and to understand.

Apparently Cryptic equals Important for most people.

I wonder if this has something to do with the reward that comes from understanding something challenging. Cryptic (wo)man-made things may also seem important because it is mysterious why a (wo)man would spend time creating something cryptic.

--Benny Lichtner

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

Send Friam mailing list submissions to
[hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
[hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: YES (Nicholas Thompson)
2. Re: YES YES YES and Hurrah (Vladimyr Burachynsky)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:50:58 -0700
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES
Thanks, Rich,

I did finally get it. I just kept trying to make it into a noun. Keep those leertts and crads cionmg

N

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rich Murray
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES

beholds
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Daer Gerg Sflonenend,

I gesus I hvae azielrithims after all.

I nveer frugeid out waht “bdelohs” wrer.

Nailchos Tamshpoon

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg Sonnenfeld
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 6:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES

The fox who lnoegd for grpaes, bdelohs wtih pian

The tpimetng cutelsrs wree too hgih to gian ;

Gierved in his haret he fcored a clreseas slmie,

And cierd , They are srahp and hlrday wotrh my wlhie .

;-)

****************************
Greg Sonnenfeld

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Vladimyr Burachynsky" <[hidden email]>
To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:54:48 -0600
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES YES YES and Hurrah
Dear Eric P. Charles,
Thank you for the Stomp/Romp. Too mild for a rant you behaved within the civilized parameters at all times. Toe on the line but let’s forgive that and cheer the sentiment.

I have to ask why even an intelligent person can make some kind of sense out of Gibberish.

Was it all the years of my marriage that left that stain? Is it an evolutionary legacy?

Something about our brains seems to Beg for Sense when there is none.
The fact is plain to everyone who attends a Magician’s performance.
We know better but for some reason people prefer their own explanations straight out of MAGIC books.

We even elect Morons who we pretend make some Sense.

We prefer magical explanations because they do not require any effort.
All Physicists are apparently insane because they intentionally look for difficult explanations.

We are probably discussing a regressive part of Human nature linked with superstition, optical illusions , alien visitations, secret conspiracies, and talking spirits.

I applaud the vigor with which you dispatched the Wicked Witch of Popular/Group Opinion.

Keep up the Good Stomp. Arm yourselves gentlemen or the Viagra adverts will swamp reason.

Luckily I am reading Umberto Eco’s “Foucault’s Pendulum “ and am in the mood for a clever Anti-Populist satire. He has a beautiful description of using a word processor to scramble anything so that it appears Cryptic. He even includes a small Basic program for deranging letters. Apparently Cryptic equals Important for most people. What is wrong with our species to believe in such fairy tales?

I curse St Augustine who claimed belief was greater than reason.

Madness in Groups seems very fashionable lately.

Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD

[hidden email]

120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd.

Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2
Canada

<a href="tel:%28204%29%202548321" value="+12042548321" target="_blank">(204) 2548321 Land

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES
Sent: February-11-12 8:08 PM
To: Greg Sonnenfeld
Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES
Since people are replying about the scrambled-word message....

<rant>
I will continue to stress that these "skills", while interesting, are the opposite of impressive. Under virtually any other circumstances, the ability to carefully discriminate things is considered a "higher" ability, a sign of more sophisticated achievement, and, in the extreme, a mysterious and nigh-magical ability to attend details others are not sensitive to. In contrast, in virtually any other circumstances, the inability to distinguish things is considered a sign of "lesser" skill.

For some odd reason though, when people send around these emails, it is asserted that our inability to distinguish a well-written word from a scrambled word demonstrates the magical and mysterious power of the Human Mind. It does not demonstrate mysterious skill, it demonstrates a (perhaps mysterious) lack of skill. The real mystery, if there is one, is why a person so well trained in reading would be fooled by such a simple manipulation. This might well be worth investigating, but for the same reasons that other types of optical illusions are worth investigating.
</rant>

Eric

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 08:06 PM, Greg Sonnenfeld <[hidden email]> wrote:

The fox who lnoegd for grpaes, bdelohs wtih pian
The tpimetng cutelsrs wree too hgih to gian ;
Gierved in his haret he fcored a clreseas slmie,
And cierd , They are srahp and hlrday wotrh my wlhie .

;-)

****************************
Greg Sonnenfeld

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Why would anybody pass on a hopeless task followed by indecipherable gibberish. List has reached a new low.

N

PS (};-])

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rich Murray
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
To: kyle paxton; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Rich Murray
Subject: [FRIAM] YES

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kyle paxton <[hidden email]>
Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:56 PM
Subject: FW: YES
To: richard t murray <[hidden email]>

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:16:54 -0800
From: [hidden email]
Subject: Fw: YES
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]

Subject: Fw: YES
To:
Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 11:13 AM
----- Forwarded Message -----

To:
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:15 PM
Subject: FW: YES

yes, I can -- no problem at all! It is amazing

If you can do this, pass it on to friends with the word YES in the subject, but only if you can read this.

A Short Neurological Test

1- Find the C below..
Please do not use any cursor help.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

2- If you already found the C, now find the 6 below.

99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
69999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

3 - Now find the N below. It's a little more difficult.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

This is NOT a joke. If you were able to pass these 3 tests, you can cancel your annual visit to your neurologist. Your brain is great and you're far from having a close relationship with Alzheimer.

Congratulations!

eonvrye that can raed this rsaie your hnad.

To my 'selected' strange-minded friends:

If you can read the following paragraph, forward it on to your friends and the person that sent it to you with 'yes' in the subject line.

Only great minds can read this
This is weird, but interesting!

If you can raed this, you have a sgtrane mnid too

Can you raed this? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in what oerdr the ltteres in a word are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is that the frsit and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it whotuit a pboerlm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the word as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed this forwrad it

FORWARD ONLY IF YOU CAN READ IT
Forward it & put 'YES' in the Subject Line

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
 
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601
_______________________________________________
Friam mailing list
[hidden email]
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Russell Standish

Re: Friam Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9

Re "magic" explanations, I think the key here is the preference for
explanations in terms of agency.

The reason for this is that we're equipped with self-aware minds,
which makes it very easy to model other organisms by introspection of
our own mind. Clearly this works when dealing with other humans, but
also works very well when dealing with other animals, such as our
predators and prey in a natural setting.

It becomes less beneficial to model natural phenomena in this way, but
presumably there is often little that could be done about those (eg
storms, lightning, volcano eruptions and the like), so sacrificing a
little food to appease a god who is the presumed agency of these
phenomena will not be a great evolutionary disadvantage. More of a
spandrel as it were, on the back of the clear advantage of dealing
with animals as though they had minds.

Science has been so successful at finding explanations for phenomena
where agency is clearly not involved, which I'm sure is the origin of
the anti-teleology and anti-anthropomorphism sentiments expressed in
science.

Cheers

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 06:15:23PM -0500, Benny Lichtner wrote:

> Hi, all. Just want to respond to some of these points as I am very
> interested in meaning making.
>
> It [the ability to read "gibberish"] does not demonstrate mysterious skill,
> > it demonstrates a (perhaps mysterious) lack of skill. The real mystery,
> > if there is one, is why a person so well trained in reading would be fooled
> > by such a simple manipulation.
>
>
> I do not see where the "lack of skill" is. Could you elaborate? What skill
> is it that we lack because of our ability to read "gibberish"? Is it the
> skill of identifying what is "gibberish" and what is not? The problem with
> "gibberish" is that you always have to put scare-quotes around it.
>
> I have to ask why even an intelligent person can make some kind of sense
> > out of ["]Gibberish.["] Something about our brains seems to Beg for Sense
> > when there is none.
>
>
> I suspect that were our brains not to "beg for sense," we would never be
> able to read any non-"gibberish." There are no *hard* rules for generating
> meaning, just some customs we use, and are used to, and break much of the
> time.
>
> We prefer magical explanations because they do not require any effort.
>
>
> Is it that we "prefer" magical explanations, or just that they are the
> first to come to mind, and are perfectly satisfactory explanations at that,
> so why look for others? If the audience were simultaneously presented with
> a magical and a non-magical explanation, I am not sure which would be
> preferred. It might have nothing to do with magicality. Maybe more to do
> with creativity, or realism, depending on who you are.
>
> All Physicists are apparently insane because they intentionally look for
> > difficult explanations.
>
>
> The explanations that physicists look for are difficult by coincidence, I
> think. They look for explanations that fit their assumptions about
> knowledge and causality, and those explanations happen to be difficult,
> both to invent/discover and to understand.
>
> Apparently Cryptic equals Important for most people.
>
>
> I wonder if this has something to do with the reward that comes from
> understanding something challenging. Cryptic (wo)man-made things may also
> seem important because it is mysterious why a (wo)man would spend time
> creating something cryptic.
>
> --Benny Lichtner
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > [hidden email]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: YES (Nicholas Thompson)
> > 2. Re: YES YES YES and Hurrah (Vladimyr Burachynsky)
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <
> > [hidden email]>
> > Cc:
> > Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:50:58 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES
> >
> > Thanks, Rich, ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > I did finally get it. I just kept trying to make it into a noun. Keep
> > those leertts and crads cionmg****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > N****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > *From:* [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] *On
> > Behalf Of *Rich Murray
> > *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:32 PM
> > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] YES****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > beholds****
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Nicholas Thompson <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:****
> >
> > Daer Gerg Sflonenend,****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > I gesus I hvae azielrithims after all. ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > I nveer frugeid out waht “bdelohs” wrer. ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > Nailchos Tamshpoon****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > *From:* [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] *On
> > Behalf Of *Greg Sonnenfeld
> > *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2012 6:07 PM
> > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] YES****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > The fox who lnoegd for grpaes, bdelohs wtih pian ****
> >
> > The tpimetng cutelsrs wree too hgih to gian ; ****
> >
> > Gierved in his haret he fcored a clreseas slmie, ****
> >
> > And cierd , They are srahp and hlrday wotrh my wlhie .****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ;-)****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ****************************
> > Greg Sonnenfeld
> >
> > “The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane
> > to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: "Vladimyr Burachynsky" <[hidden email]>
> > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <
> > [hidden email]>
> > Cc:
> > Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:54:48 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES YES YES and Hurrah
> >
> > Dear Eric P. Charles,****
> >
> > Thank you for the Stomp/Romp. Too mild for a rant you behaved within the
> > civilized parameters at all times. Toe on the line but let’s forgive that
> > and cheer the sentiment.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > I have to ask why even an intelligent person can make some kind of sense
> > out of Gibberish.****
> >
> > Was it all the years of my marriage that left that stain? Is it an
> > evolutionary legacy? ****
> >
> > Something about our brains seems to Beg for Sense when there is none. ****
> >
> > The fact is plain to everyone who attends a Magician’s performance.****
> >
> > We know better but for some reason people prefer their own explanations
> > straight out of MAGIC books.****
> >
> > We even elect Morons who we pretend make some Sense. ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > We prefer magical explanations because they do not require any effort. ***
> > *
> >
> > All Physicists are apparently insane because they intentionally look for
> > difficult explanations.****
> >
> > We are probably discussing a regressive part of Human nature linked with
> > superstition, optical illusions , alien visitations, secret conspiracies,
> > and talking spirits.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > I applaud the vigor with which you dispatched the Wicked Witch of
> > Popular/Group Opinion.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Keep up the Good Stomp. Arm yourselves gentlemen or the Viagra adverts
> > will swamp reason.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ****
> >
> > Luckily I am reading Umberto Eco’s “Foucault’s Pendulum “ and am in the
> > mood for a clever Anti-Populist satire. He has a beautiful description of
> > using a word processor to scramble anything so that it appears Cryptic. He
> > even includes a small Basic program for deranging letters. Apparently
> > Cryptic equals Important for most people. What is wrong with our species to
> > believe in such fairy tales? ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > I curse St Augustine who claimed belief was greater than reason.****
> >
> > Madness in Groups seems very fashionable lately.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > [hidden email]****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > 120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd.****
> >
> > Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2****
> >
> > Canada ****
> >
> > (204) 2548321 Land****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > *From:* [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] *On
> > Behalf Of *ERIC P. CHARLES
> > *Sent:* February-11-12 8:08 PM
> > *To:* Greg Sonnenfeld
> > *Cc:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] YES****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Since people are replying about the scrambled-word message....
> >
> > <rant>
> > I will continue to stress that these "skills", while interesting, are the
> > opposite of impressive. Under virtually any other circumstances, the
> > ability to carefully discriminate things is considered a "higher" ability,
> > a sign of more sophisticated achievement, and, in the extreme, a mysterious
> > and nigh-magical ability to attend details others are not sensitive to. In
> > contrast, in virtually any other circumstances, the inability to
> > distinguish things is considered a sign of "lesser" skill.
> >
> > For some odd reason though, when people send around these emails, it is
> > asserted that our inability to distinguish a well-written word from a
> > scrambled word demonstrates the magical and mysterious power of the Human
> > Mind. It does not demonstrate mysterious skill, it demonstrates a (perhaps
> > mysterious) lack of skill. The real mystery, if there is one, is why a
> > person so well trained in reading would be fooled by such a simple
> > manipulation. This might well be worth investigating, but for the same
> > reasons that other types of optical illusions are worth investigating.
> > </rant>
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 08:06 PM, *Greg Sonnenfeld <[hidden email]>*wrote:
> >
> > ****
> >
> > The fox who lnoegd for grpaes, bdelohs wtih pian ****
> >
> > The tpimetng cutelsrs wree too hgih to gian ; ****
> >
> > Gierved in his haret he fcored a clreseas slmie, ****
> >
> > And cierd , They are srahp and hlrday wotrh my wlhie .****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ;-)****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ****************************
> > Greg Sonnenfeld
> >
> > “The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane
> > to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”
> >
> >
> > ****
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Nicholas Thompson <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:****
> >
> > Why would anybody pass on a hopeless task followed by indecipherable
> > gibberish. List has reached a new low. ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > N****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > PS (};-])****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > *From:* [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] *On
> > Behalf Of *Rich Murray
> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
> > *To:* kyle paxton; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group;
> > Rich Murray
> > *Subject:* [FRIAM] YES****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: *kyle paxton* <[hidden email]>
> > Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:56 PM
> > Subject: FW: YES
> > To: richard t murray <[hidden email]>
> > ****
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:16:54 -0800
> > From: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Fw: YES
> > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email];
> > [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email];
> > [hidden email]****
> >
> >
> > Subject: Fw: YES****
> >
> > To:
> > Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 11:13 AM****
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message -----****
> >
> >
> > *To:*
> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:15 PM
> > *Subject:* FW: YES****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > yes, I can -- no problem at all! It is amazing****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > *If you can do this, pass it on to friends with the word YES in the
> > subject, but only if you can read this.*****
> >
> > *A Short Neurological Test
> > **
> > **1- Find the C below..*****
> >
> > *Please do not use any cursor help.**
> > **
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> >
> > 2- If you already found the C, now find the 6 below.
> >
> > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
> > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
> > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
> > 69999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
> > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
> > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
> >
> > 3 - Now find the N below. It's a little more difficult.
> >
> > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNMM
> > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
> >
> > This is NOT a joke. If you were able to pass these 3 tests, you can cancel
> > your annual visit to your neurologist. Your brain is great and you're far
> > from having a close** **relationship with Alzheimer.**
> > **
> > Congratulations!*****
> >
> > *
> > **eonvrye that can raed this rsaie your hnad.*****
> >
> > *To my 'selected' strange-minded friends:
> >
> > If you can read the following paragraph, forward it on to your friends and
> > the person that sent it to you with 'yes' in the subject line.*****
> >
> > *
> >
> > **
> > **
> > **Only great minds can read this
> > This is weird, but interesting!
> > **
> > **If you can raed this, you have a sgtrane mnid too
> >
> > Can you raed this? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.
> >
> > I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was rdanieg. The
> > phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde
> > Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in what oerdr the ltteres in a word are, the
> > olny iproamtnt tihng is that the frsit and last ltteer be in the rghit
> > pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it whotuit a
> > pboerlm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by
> > istlef, but the word as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot
> > slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed this forwrad it
> >
> > FORWARD ONLY IF YOU CAN READ IT*****
> >
> > *Forward it & put 'YES' in the Subject Line*****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> > ****
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ============================================================****
> >
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv****
> >
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College****
> >
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org****
> >
> > Eric Charles
> >
> > Professional Student and
> > Assistant Professor of Psychology
> > Penn State University
> > Altoona, PA 16601
> >
> > ****
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Friam mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >
> >

> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders
Visiting Professor of Mathematics [hidden email]
University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Nick Thompson

Re: Friam Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9

In reply to this post by Benny Lichtner

Benny,

The question is always, where in the chain of correspondence did somebody fail to see the joke. Rich Murray is a great tease, and is always putting up stuff which is designed to put the cat amongst the pigeons. He rarely fails.

I took it as a joke.

The next guy took it as a joke.

But then somebody took THAT seriously and suddenly we are off to the races.

Suddenly, I am sounding “douggish”.

Nick

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Benny Lichtner
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 4:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9

Hi, all. Just want to respond to some of these points as I am very interested in meaning making.

It [the ability to read "gibberish"] does not demonstrate mysterious skill, it demonstrates a (perhaps mysterious) lack of skill. The real mystery, if there is one, is why a person so well trained in reading would be fooled by such a simple manipulation.

I have to ask why even an intelligent person can make some kind of sense out of ["]Gibberish.["] Something about our brains seems to Beg for Sense when there is none.

We prefer magical explanations because they do not require any effort.

All Physicists are apparently insane because they intentionally look for difficult explanations.

Apparently Cryptic equals Important for most people.

--Benny Lichtner

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:00 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

Send Friam mailing list submissions to
[hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
[hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: YES (Nicholas Thompson)
2. Re: YES YES YES and Hurrah (Vladimyr Burachynsky)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:50:58 -0700
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES

Thanks, Rich,

I did finally get it. I just kept trying to make it into a noun. Keep those leertts and crads cionmg

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rich Murray
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 8:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES

beholds

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Daer Gerg Sflonenend,

I gesus I hvae azielrithims after all.

I nveer frugeid out waht “bdelohs” wrer.

Nailchos Tamshpoon

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Greg Sonnenfeld
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 6:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES

The fox who lnoegd for grpaes, bdelohs wtih pian

The tpimetng cutelsrs wree too hgih to gian ;

Gierved in his haret he fcored a clreseas slmie,

And cierd , They are srahp and hlrday wotrh my wlhie .

;-)

****************************
Greg Sonnenfeld

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Vladimyr Burachynsky" <[hidden email]>
To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <[hidden email]>
Cc:
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:54:48 -0600
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES YES YES and Hurrah

Dear Eric P. Charles,

Thank you for the Stomp/Romp. Too mild for a rant you behaved within the civilized parameters at all times. Toe on the line but let’s forgive that and cheer the sentiment.

I have to ask why even an intelligent person can make some kind of sense out of Gibberish.

Was it all the years of my marriage that left that stain? Is it an evolutionary legacy?

Something about our brains seems to Beg for Sense when there is none.

The fact is plain to everyone who attends a Magician’s performance.

We know better but for some reason people prefer their own explanations straight out of MAGIC books.

We even elect Morons who we pretend make some Sense.

We prefer magical explanations because they do not require any effort.

All Physicists are apparently insane because they intentionally look for difficult explanations.

We are probably discussing a regressive part of Human nature linked with superstition, optical illusions , alien visitations, secret conspiracies, and talking spirits.

I applaud the vigor with which you dispatched the Wicked Witch of Popular/Group Opinion.

Keep up the Good Stomp. Arm yourselves gentlemen or the Viagra adverts will swamp reason.

Luckily I am reading Umberto Eco’s “Foucault’s Pendulum “ and am in the mood for a clever Anti-Populist satire. He has a beautiful description of using a word processor to scramble anything so that it appears Cryptic. He even includes a small Basic program for deranging letters. Apparently Cryptic equals Important for most people. What is wrong with our species to believe in such fairy tales?

I curse St Augustine who claimed belief was greater than reason.

Madness in Groups seems very fashionable lately.

Vladimyr Ivan Burachynsky PhD

[hidden email]

120-1053 Beaverhill Blvd.

Winnipeg,Manitoba, R2J3R2

Canada

<a href="tel:%28204%29%202548321" target="_blank">(204) 2548321 Land

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of ERIC P. CHARLES
Sent: February-11-12 8:08 PM
To: Greg Sonnenfeld
Cc: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] YES

Since people are replying about the scrambled-word message....

<rant>
I will continue to stress that these "skills", while interesting, are the opposite of impressive. Under virtually any other circumstances, the ability to carefully discriminate things is considered a "higher" ability, a sign of more sophisticated achievement, and, in the extreme, a mysterious and nigh-magical ability to attend details others are not sensitive to. In contrast, in virtually any other circumstances, the inability to distinguish things is considered a sign of "lesser" skill.

For some odd reason though, when people send around these emails, it is asserted that our inability to distinguish a well-written word from a scrambled word demonstrates the magical and mysterious power of the Human Mind. It does not demonstrate mysterious skill, it demonstrates a (perhaps mysterious) lack of skill. The real mystery, if there is one, is why a person so well trained in reading would be fooled by such a simple manipulation. This might well be worth investigating, but for the same reasons that other types of optical illusions are worth investigating.
</rant>

Eric

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 08:06 PM, Greg Sonnenfeld <[hidden email]> wrote:

The fox who lnoegd for grpaes, bdelohs wtih pian

The tpimetng cutelsrs wree too hgih to gian ;

Gierved in his haret he fcored a clreseas slmie,

And cierd , They are srahp and hlrday wotrh my wlhie .

;-)

****************************
Greg Sonnenfeld

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Why would anybody pass on a hopeless task followed by indecipherable gibberish. List has reached a new low.

PS (};-])

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rich Murray
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 1:32 AM
To: kyle paxton; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Rich Murray
Subject: [FRIAM] YES

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kyle paxton <[hidden email]>
Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:56 PM
Subject: FW: YES
To: richard t murray <[hidden email]>

Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:16:54 -0800
From: [hidden email]
Subject: Fw: YES
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]

Subject: Fw: YES

To:
Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 11:13 AM

----- Forwarded Message -----

To:
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2012 10:15 PM
Subject: FW: YES

yes, I can -- no problem at all! It is amazing

If you can do this, pass it on to friends with the word YES in the subject, but only if you can read this.
A Short Neurological Test

1- Find the C below..
Please do not use any cursor help.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

2- If you already found the C, now find the 6 below.

99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
69999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

3 - Now find the N below. It's a little more difficult.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

This is NOT a joke. If you were able to pass these 3 tests, you can cancel your annual visit to your neurologist. Your brain is great and you're far from having a close relationship with Alzheimer.

Congratulations!

eonvrye that can raed this rsaie your hnad.
To my 'selected' strange-minded friends:

If you can read the following paragraph, forward it on to your friends and the person that sent it to you with 'yes' in the subject line.

Only great minds can read this
This is weird, but interesting!

If you can raed this, you have a sgtrane mnid too

Can you raed this? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in what oerdr the ltteres in a word are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is that the frsit and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it whotuit a pboerlm. This is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the word as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed this forwrad it

FORWARD ONLY IF YOU CAN READ IT
Forward it & put 'YES' in the Subject Line

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

_______________________________________________
Friam mailing list
[hidden email]
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Friam Digest, Vol 104, Issue 9

I've been meaning to complement you on the great strides you've been making in honing and polishing your inter-personal interaction skills, Nick.

'Atta boy!

--
Doug Roberts
[hidden email]
[hidden email]

http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

505-455-7333 - Office
505-670-8195 - Cell

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Benny,

[...]

Suddenly, I am sounding “douggish”.

Nick