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RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16

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Nick Thompson

RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16

All

Let's say we get everybody in rural KS a solar water heater and two one meg
windmills for each thousand people and bingo, they're off the grid, no.
And then we put a giant water tower in the middle of town, and when we
arent drawing electricity, we pump water from the Ogalalla Aquifer up into
the tower and take some electricity back out as we let it down. Also, in
the winter, could we use some of that electricity to draw heat out of teh
aquifer for heating. Also where is professor Whyte (sp?) when we need
him? How much power do we save by not running it down long transmission
lines? While we are at it, can we put cell phone transpnders on all the
windmills? Since they are wired to all the houses, can we use them for
cable access points? Seems like there must be a damn energy Department
grant in here somewhere.

I am sorry. This is surely old stuff to the rest of you, but spending 48
hours in a tent in Sublette KS makes you think about stuff like this.
Seems like KS is a perpetual motion machine.

How much

Nicholas S. Thompson
Professor of Psychology and Ethology
Clark University
[hidden email]
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
[hidden email]

> [Original Message]
> From: James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR] <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Date: 8/8/2005 7:55:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
>
> Nick,
>
> See my comments below.
>
> Regards,
>
> James
>
> >-- Original Message --
> >Reply-To: [hidden email]
> >From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> >To: "James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR]" <[hidden email]>
> >Subject: RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> >Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 07:54:53 -0600
> >
> >
> >Hi James,
> >
> >Yes, indeed. I found that fascinating. And thanks for your kind

words.
> >
> Thanks.
>
> >I would love it if from time to time you put some weather or fluid
dynamics
> >problems up for people to think about and discuss, things you are
worrying
> >about or wondering about. I have always been glad I have done this,
often

> >receiving replies from all over the world from the list. If you are shy
> >to put dumb questions up, I will put them up in my own name. Dumb
> >questions often get the most interesting and useful answers.
> >
> I do not worry or wonder about things, especially things about weather or
> fluids. I pretty much know everything there is to know! You are welcome
> to put up questions and I will try to answer them.
>
> >We saw a huge windmill array in the Midwest ... I forget where .... and
> >I
> >thought of you. With all the wind we experienced while we were stuck
> in
> >KS I cannot think of any reason why rural KS should bother to import

power.
> KS has the third most wind resource in the country according to some
not-so-good

> wind maps.
>
> >How much do those suckers generate?
> Let's see. One 1-MW wind turbine generates enough energy to power about
> 400 average homes. A 1-MW system costs about $1 million fully installed.
>
> How many would be required to generate
> >power for a rural town of a thousand. How much power is lost by having
> >to
> >ship it from wherever they ship it from? Probably all trivial, but I

> >the idea of every KS town having its windmill as well as its water tower.
> >
> Please see the answers above.
>
> >
> >When I think of complexity, I think not only of nonlinearity but beyond
> to
> >emergence. Not only are the things that are produced orders of magnitude
> >different from my expectation; they are entirely different things
> >altogether.
> I undestand why you think beyond nonlinearity to emergence. However, just
> remember that there is no clear way out of nonlinearity to emergence as
> you already pointed out above. The presumed states you reach (or the

conclusions

> you make) about the emerging organization are not unique! I will let you
> ponder over this a bit.
>
> >
> >Nicholas S. Thompson
> >Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> >Clark University
> >[hidden email]
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR] <[hidden email]>
> >> To: Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: 8/7/2005 8:31:39 PM
> >> Subject: RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> >>
> >> Nick,
> >>
> >> Here is what I sent about myself. I thought it was posted to friam and
> >> I am not sure why you didn't receive it. More soon.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> James
> >>
> >> >-- Original Message --
> >> >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
> >> >From: [hidden email]
> >> >Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> >> >To: [hidden email]
> >> >Reply-To: [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> >than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Today's Topics:
> >> >
> >> > 1. RE:Self-introduction (James Stalker)
> >> > (James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR])
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >Message: 1
> >> >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:54:03 -0600
> >> >From: "James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR]" <[hidden email]>
> >> >Subject: [FRIAM] RE:Self-introduction (James Stalker)
> >> >To: [hidden email]
> >> >Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >> >
> >> >Fellow Friamers,
> >> >
> >> >I started attending the Friam meetings since late May of this year.
> Nick
> >> >Thompson was instrumental in making me take a closer look at this

Forum.
> >> >Some of the initial discussions with Nick about weather and stuff also
> >> led
> >> >to the much needed seriousness on my part to attend these meetings.
> Note
> >> >that I have been living in Santa Fe since 1998, but never took the
Forum
> >> >seriously. Thank you, Nick!
> >> >
> >> >I am glad I finally made the decision to get involved. I have met a
> lot
> >> >of you fine folks in some of these meetings and presented a WedTech
> talk
> >> >(see www.redfish.com/friam/ for details, hosted by Stephen Guerin)
that

> >> >included an overview of my regional weather forecasting company, RESPR
> >> (Regional
> >> >Earth System Predictability Research), based in Santa Fe.
> >> >
> >> >I have professional background in Mechanical Engineering (BS & MS
> >degrees),
> >> >computational fluid dynamics (CFD), and Atmospheric Sciences (MS & PHD
> >> degrees),
> >> >severe local storms (SLS), and was a Technical Staff Scientist
> >> >for a number of years at Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) until
> >2003.
> >> >
> >> >I have developed high-resolution atmospheric modeling capabilities and
> >> parallel
> >> >computing resources (e.g., I built our parallel cluster using my own
> >configuration
> >> >strategies) to run realtime forecasts at RESPR. Currently, we are
> >focusing
> >> >on the wind energy sector with our model wind assessment and

short-term
> >> >forecast products and wind project consulting services. Additionally,
> >I
> >> >would like to take this opportunity to mention that we have an
aggressive
> >> >business plan to penetrate the wind market with our above products and
> >> services
> >> >and currently are open to equity investment from compatible investors.
> >> >
> >> >I had also developed a number of SBIR (Small Business Innovation
> >Research)
> >> >proposals over the past couple of years that received favorable
reviews
> >> >but never brought in funding (unfortunately). I would be excited to
> >revisit
> >> >these proposals with right strategic business partners so we could
secure
> >> >funding successfully.
> >> >
> >> >I have a lot of experience in developing computer codes using
different

> >> >languages for scientific computing, visualization, and other
> >applications.
> >> >
> >> >I am not at all expecting any of you to pick up that phone and call
> me
> >> and
> >> >say you have funding and needed some project critical work performed
> by
> >> >yesterday (would be welcome and nice, though). What I am interested
> in,
> >> >however, is to find some key business partners to develop large

projects
> >> >that all the participating businesses could benefit from.
> >> >
> >> >I hope to hear from such potential partners and also hope to meet
those

> >> >that I have not already met and interact with you all through these
> great
> >> >informal meetings.
> >> >
> >> >Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or comments.
> >> >
> >> >Best regards,
> >> >
> >> >James Stalker
> >> >
> >> >|----------------------------------------------------
> >> >|Dr. James R. Stalker, President & CEO
> >> >|[hidden email]
> >> >|RESPR, INC. (www.respr.com)
> >> >|P.O. Box 29493
> >> >|Santa Fe, New Mexico 87592
> >> >|5054387155(phone)* 5054387111(fax)
> >> >|----------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Friam mailing list
> >> >[hidden email]
> >> >http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >End of Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> >> >*************************************
> >>
> >> |----------------------------------------------------
> >> |Dr. James R. Stalker, President & CEO
> >> |[hidden email]
> >> |RESPR, INC. (www.respr.com)
> >> |P.O. Box 29493
> >> |Santa Fe, New Mexico 87592
> >> |5054387155(phone)* 5054387111(fax)
> >> |----------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
> |----------------------------------------------------
> |Dr. James R. Stalker, President & CEO
> |[hidden email]
> |RESPR, INC. (www.respr.com)
> |P.O. Box 29493
> |Santa Fe, New Mexico 87592
> |5054387155(phone)* 5054387111(fax)
> |----------------------------------------------------

Tom Johnson (via Google Docs)

RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16

Nick wrote: "Seems like KS is a perpetual motion machine."

I used to live there. Kansas is a de-evolution machine. (Lawrence is the
exception.)

-tj

On 8/8/05, Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> All
>
> Let's say we get everybody in rural KS a solar water heater and two one
> meg
> windmills for each thousand people and bingo, they're off the grid, no.
> And then we put a giant water tower in the middle of town, and when we
> arent drawing electricity, we pump water from the Ogalalla Aquifer up into
> the tower and take some electricity back out as we let it down. Also, in
> the winter, could we use some of that electricity to draw heat out of teh
> aquifer for heating. Also where is professor Whyte (sp?) when we need
> him? How much power do we save by not running it down long transmission
> lines? While we are at it, can we put cell phone transpnders on all the
> windmills? Since they are wired to all the houses, can we use them for
> cable access points? Seems like there must be a damn energy Department
> grant in here somewhere.
>
> I am sorry. This is surely old stuff to the rest of you, but spending 48
> hours in a tent in Sublette KS makes you think about stuff like this.
> Seems like KS is a perpetual motion machine.
>
>
>
> How much
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> [hidden email]
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> [hidden email]
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR] <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Date: 8/8/2005 7:55:59 PM
> > Subject: RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> >
> > Nick,
> >
> > See my comments below.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > James
> >
> > >-- Original Message --
> > >Reply-To: [hidden email]
> > >From: "Nicholas Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> > >To: "James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR]" <[hidden email]>
> > >Subject: RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> > >Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 07:54:53 -0600
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi James,
> > >
> > >Yes, indeed. I found that fascinating. And thanks for your kind
> words.
> > >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > >I would love it if from time to time you put some weather or fluid
> dynamics
> > >problems up for people to think about and discuss, things you are
> worrying
> > >about or wondering about. I have always been glad I have done this,
> often
> > >receiving replies from all over the world from the list. If you are shy
> > >to put dumb questions up, I will put them up in my own name. Dumb
> > >questions often get the most interesting and useful answers.
> > >
> > I do not worry or wonder about things, especially things about weather
> or
> > fluids. I pretty much know everything there is to know! You are welcome
> > to put up questions and I will try to answer them.
> >
> > >We saw a huge windmill array in the Midwest ... I forget where .... and
> > >I
> > >thought of you. With all the wind we experienced while we were stuck
> > in
> > >KS I cannot think of any reason why rural KS should bother to import
> power.
> > KS has the third most wind resource in the country according to some
> not-so-good
> > wind maps.
> >
> > >How much do those suckers generate?
> > Let's see. One 1-MW wind turbine generates enough energy to power about
> > 400 average homes. A 1-MW system costs about $1 million fully installed.
> >
> > How many would be required to generate
> > >power for a rural town of a thousand. How much power is lost by having
> > >to
> > >ship it from wherever they ship it from? Probably all trivial, but I
> like
> > >the idea of every KS town having its windmill as well as its water
> tower.
> > >
> > Please see the answers above.
> >
> > >
> > >When I think of complexity, I think not only of nonlinearity but beyond
> > to
> > >emergence. Not only are the things that are produced orders of
> magnitude
> > >different from my expectation; they are entirely different things
> > >altogether.
> > I undestand why you think beyond nonlinearity to emergence. However,
> just
> > remember that there is no clear way out of nonlinearity to emergence as
> > you already pointed out above. The presumed states you reach (or the
> conclusions
> > you make) about the emerging organization are not unique! I will let you
> > ponder over this a bit.
> >
> > >
> > >Nicholas S. Thompson
> > >Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> > >Clark University
> > >[hidden email]
> > >http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR] <[hidden email]>
> > >> To: Nicholas Thompson <[hidden email]>
> > >> Date: 8/7/2005 8:31:39 PM
> > >> Subject: RE: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> > >>
> > >> Nick,
> > >>
> > >> Here is what I sent about myself. I thought it was posted to friam
> and
> > >> I am not sure why you didn't receive it. More soon.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> >-- Original Message --
> > >> >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
> > >> >From: [hidden email]
> > >> >Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> > >> >To: [hidden email]
> > >> >Reply-To: [hidden email]
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > >> > [hidden email]
> > >> >
> > >> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > >> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > >> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > >> > [hidden email]
> > >> >
> > >> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > >> > [hidden email]
> > >> >
> > >> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > >> >than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >Today's Topics:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. RE:Self-introduction (James Stalker)
> > >> > (James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR])
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> >Message: 1
> > >> >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:54:03 -0600
> > >> >From: "James R. Stalker, PHD [RESPR]" <[hidden email]>
> > >> >Subject: [FRIAM] RE:Self-introduction (James Stalker)
> > >> >To: [hidden email]
> > >> >Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >> >
> > >> >Fellow Friamers,
> > >> >
> > >> >I started attending the Friam meetings since late May of this year.
> > Nick
> > >> >Thompson was instrumental in making me take a closer look at this
> Forum.
> > >> >Some of the initial discussions with Nick about weather and stuff
> also
> > >> led
> > >> >to the much needed seriousness on my part to attend these meetings.
> > Note
> > >> >that I have been living in Santa Fe since 1998, but never took the
> Forum
> > >> >seriously. Thank you, Nick!
> > >> >
> > >> >I am glad I finally made the decision to get involved. I have met a
> > lot
> > >> >of you fine folks in some of these meetings and presented a WedTech
> > talk
> > >> >(see www.redfish.com/friam/ <http://www.redfish.com/friam/> for
> details, hosted by Stephen Guerin)
> that
> > >> >included an overview of my regional weather forecasting company,
> RESPR
> > >> (Regional
> > >> >Earth System Predictability Research), based in Santa Fe.
> > >> >
> > >> >I have professional background in Mechanical Engineering (BS & MS
> > >degrees),
> > >> >computational fluid dynamics (CFD), and Atmospheric Sciences (MS &
> PHD
> > >> degrees),
> > >> >severe local storms (SLS), and was a Technical Staff Scientist
> > >> >for a number of years at Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) until
> > >2003.
> > >> >
> > >> >I have developed high-resolution atmospheric modeling capabilities
> and
> > >> parallel
> > >> >computing resources (e.g., I built our parallel cluster using my own
> > >configuration
> > >> >strategies) to run realtime forecasts at RESPR. Currently, we are
> > >focusing
> > >> >on the wind energy sector with our model wind assessment and
> short-term
> > >> >forecast products and wind project consulting services.
> Additionally,
> > >I
> > >> >would like to take this opportunity to mention that we have an
> aggressive
> > >> >business plan to penetrate the wind market with our above products
> and
> > >> services
> > >> >and currently are open to equity investment from compatible
> investors.
> > >> >
> > >> >I had also developed a number of SBIR (Small Business Innovation
> > >Research)
> > >> >proposals over the past couple of years that received favorable
> reviews
> > >> >but never brought in funding (unfortunately). I would be excited to
> > >revisit
> > >> >these proposals with right strategic business partners so we could
> secure
> > >> >funding successfully.
> > >> >
> > >> >I have a lot of experience in developing computer codes using
> different
> > >> >languages for scientific computing, visualization, and other
> > >applications.
> > >> >
> > >> >I am not at all expecting any of you to pick up that phone and call
> > me
> > >> and
> > >> >say you have funding and needed some project critical work performed
> > by
> > >> >yesterday (would be welcome and nice, though). What I am interested
> > in,
> > >> >however, is to find some key business partners to develop large
> projects
> > >> >that all the participating businesses could benefit from.
> > >> >
> > >> >I hope to hear from such potential partners and also hope to meet
> those
> > >> >that I have not already met and interact with you all through these
> > great
> > >> >informal meetings.
> > >> >
> > >> >Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or
> comments.
> > >> >
> > >> >Best regards,
> > >> >
> > >> >James Stalker
> > >> >
> > >> >|----------------------------------------------------
> > >> >|Dr. James R. Stalker, President & CEO
> > >> >|[hidden email] <http://respr.com>
> > >> >|RESPR, INC. (www.respr.com <http://www.respr.com>)
> > >> >|P.O. Box 29493
> > >> >|Santa Fe, New Mexico 87592
> > >> >|5054387155(phone)* 5054387111(fax)
> > >> >|----------------------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> >_______________________________________________
> > >> >Friam mailing list
> > >> >[hidden email]
> > >> >http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >End of Friam Digest, Vol 25, Issue 16
> > >> >*************************************
> > >>
> > >> |----------------------------------------------------
> > >> |Dr. James R. Stalker, President & CEO
> > >> |[hidden email] <http://respr.com>
> > >> |RESPR, INC. (www.respr.com <http://www.respr.com>)
> > >> |P.O. Box 29493
> > >> |Santa Fe, New Mexico 87592
> > >> |5054387155(phone)* 5054387111(fax)
> > >> |----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> > |----------------------------------------------------
> > |Dr. James R. Stalker, President & CEO
> > |[hidden email] <http://respr.com>
> > |RESPR, INC. (www.respr.com <http://www.respr.com>)
> > |P.O. Box 29493
> > |Santa Fe, New Mexico 87592
> > |5054387155(phone)* 5054387111(fax)
> > |----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> http://www.friam.org
>

--
==============================================
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism
www.analyticjournalism.com <http://www.analyticjournalism.com>
505.577.6482(c) 415.775.2530(h)
http://www.jtjohnson.com [hidden email]

"He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense."
-John McCarthy, Stanford University mathematician
==============================================
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