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Pester Power

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Douglas Roberts-2

Pester Power

Short version: My new Nexus 4 phone exhibited buggy WiFi behavior, consistently putting the WiFi to sleep after the screen was blanked, even after applying the "Always Keep WiFi On" setting.

On one particular Google Code forum, there were already ~400 complaints about this behavior from other Nexus 4 owners. No acknowledgement from Google anywhere in there.

I replaced two Nexus 4 phones before receiving a third one with the same problem.

Called Google Device Support. Escalated to get a level 2 rep on the line. Was told by the level 2 rep that the "deep sleep" WiFi behavior was a "Feature", not a "Bug".

Submitted a bug report via the phone which contained links to three of my previous blog blog posts describing the problem in detail. This guaranteed that the bug report would go directly to the Nexus 4 developers.

Within minutes, I saw Google reading the blog posts.

The next day Google posted on the Google Code forum acknowledging that they are looking into the problem.

Pester Power.

http://things-linux.blogspot.com/2013/01/pester-power.html

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Doug Roberts
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Arlo Barnes

Re: Pester Power

Good! Although Google has been OK about doing the 'not being evil' thing (with some exceptions), they have recently been doing pretty poorly on the responsivity front. And the bug/feature excuse has never been valid for any company. But it is good to hear that pestering still has power...I believe there was some discussion on the list not too long ago about how that pertains to political representatives.
-Arlo James Barnes

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Pester Power

Thanks, Arlo. I'm sure *some* people on this list (Steve) will be surprised to learn that I can become somewhat tenacious when someone gives me the wrong answer to a question to which I already happen to know the answer.

--Doug

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Arlo Barnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good! Although Google has been OK about doing the 'not being evil' thing (with some exceptions), they have recently been doing pretty poorly on the responsivity front. And the bug/feature excuse has never been valid for any company. But it is good to hear that pestering still has power...I believe there was some discussion on the list not too long ago about how that pertains to political representatives.
-Arlo James Barnes

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Doug Roberts
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Steve Smith

Re: Pester Power

In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2

Pester Power

Google should be skeered
Very Askeered!

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Pester Power

I'd forgotten about that. :) I had a coffee cup with that cartoon on it once, I wonder where it went.

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Pester Power

Google should be skeered
Very Askeered!

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Steve Smith

Re: Pester Power

On 1/11/13 3:49 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

I'd forgotten about that. :) I had a coffee cup with that cartoon on it once, I wonder where it went.

There's another in the series... you seem to be the subject of comic relief once again!

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Pester Power

Android gonads, indeed.

In reality, The Google is such a large, unwieldy behemoth that we mere mortals are but gnats buzzing around its nether regions: not worthy of notice.

However, the cartoon is greatly appreciated...

On Jan 13, 2013 10:37 PM, "Steve Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 1/11/13 3:49 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

I'd forgotten about that. :) I had a coffee cup with that cartoon on it once, I wonder where it went.

There's another in the series... you seem to be the subject of comic relief once again!

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Pamela McCorduck

Re: Pester Power

By us all!

On Jan 13, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

<snicker>
Android gonads, indeed.
In reality, The Google is such a large, unwieldy behemoth that we mere mortals are but gnats buzzing around its nether regions: not worthy of notice.
However, the cartoon is greatly appreciated...

On Jan 13, 2013 10:37 PM, "Steve Smith" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 1/11/13 3:49 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

I'd forgotten about that. :) I had a coffee cup with that cartoon on it once, I wonder where it went.

There's another in the series... you seem to be the subject of comic relief once again!
<DougNexus4.jpg>

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"Bounded Rationality," by Pamela McCorduck, the second novel in the series, Santa Fe Stories, Sunstone Press, is now available both as ink-on-paper and as an e-book.

“The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid.”
― Jane Austen

Owen Densmore

Re: Pester Power

Administrator

You know, I wonder what the Pester Threshold is to annoy the beasts (Google, Apple, MS, Amazon, etc.) enough to get results? It likely has some correlation with size and number of products.

I think the "consumer protection agencies" of one flavor or another are just too bureaucratic. Too serious.

But something edgy and different might have a huge and surprising impact.

Just think of all the annoyances you have with completely tone-deaf companies. Just collecting the list would be fascinating. The WiFi example with Google, who *depends* on networking, is just beyond belief.

-- Owen

Douglas Roberts-2

Re: Pester Power

I couldn't hurt to get an article describing their "issues" published in Linux Today, if getting their attention was the goal:

http://www.linuxtoday.com/upload/has-google-become-institution-bound-130113152507.html

--Doug

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

You know, I wonder what the Pester Threshold is to annoy the beasts (Google, Apple, MS, Amazon, etc.) enough to get results? It likely has some correlation with size and number of products.

I think the "consumer protection agencies" of one flavor or another are just too bureaucratic. Too serious.

But something edgy and different might have a huge and surprising impact.

Just think of all the annoyances you have with completely tone-deaf companies. Just collecting the list would be fascinating. The WiFi example with Google, who *depends* on networking, is just beyond belief.

-- Owen

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Parks, Raymond

Re: [EXTERNAL] Pester Power

In reply to this post by Owen Densmore

The Pester Threshold is more about who you annoy within the beast than the beast itself. My wife is a past master at pester. Back when I was still in the USAF, our Volvo 265 broke down in Texas while we were visiting parents. We bought a demonstrator 745 off the Volvo dealer in San Antonio. About a month later, I was driving a back road in Bellevue, Nebraska when a back wheel literally fell off. It turned out that the dealer in San Antonio had swapped rims on the demonstrator for some customer who thought the stock 745 rims were "cool". The replacement rims literally wore through the studs and, voila, the wheel fell off. Neither the Omaha Volvo dealer nor the San Antonio Volvo dealer wanted to take responsibility for the problem. My wife worked her way up through the dealers, the regions, and eventually to Volvo USA. She found a way (this was in the '80s) to use a toll-free number to call the president of Volvo USA every hour, on the hour. We didn't have to wait too much longer before the problem was resolved.

The customer service rep for our region of a past health insurance company was the recipient of so many calls from my wife that she would literally break down in tears when my wife announced her name. She isn't nasty but she is firm and persistent.

Ray Parks

Consilient Heuristician/IDART Program Manager

V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084

NIPR: [hidden email]

SIPR: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)

JWICS: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)

On Jan 14, 2013, at 10:17 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

You know, I wonder what the Pester Threshold is to annoy the beasts (Google, Apple, MS, Amazon, etc.) enough to get results? It likely has some correlation with size and number of products.

I think the "consumer protection agencies" of one flavor or another are just too bureaucratic. Too serious.

But something edgy and different might have a huge and surprising impact.

Just think of all the annoyances you have with completely tone-deaf companies. Just collecting the list would be fascinating. The WiFi example with Google, who *depends* on networking, is just beyond belief.

-- Owen
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Douglas Roberts-2

Re: [EXTERNAL] Pester Power

Love this story, Ray. Firm & persistent can be good traits.

--Doug

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Parks, Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:

The Pester Threshold is more about who you annoy within the beast than the beast itself. My wife is a past master at pester. Back when I was still in the USAF, our Volvo 265 broke down in Texas while we were visiting parents. We bought a demonstrator 745 off the Volvo dealer in San Antonio. About a month later, I was driving a back road in Bellevue, Nebraska when a back wheel literally fell off. It turned out that the dealer in San Antonio had swapped rims on the demonstrator for some customer who thought the stock 745 rims were "cool". The replacement rims literally wore through the studs and, voila, the wheel fell off. Neither the Omaha Volvo dealer nor the San Antonio Volvo dealer wanted to take responsibility for the problem. My wife worked her way up through the dealers, the regions, and eventually to Volvo USA. She found a way (this was in the '80s) to use a toll-free number to call the president of Volvo USA every hour, on the hour. We didn't have to wait too much longer before the problem was resolved.

The customer service rep for our region of a past health insurance company was the recipient of so many calls from my wife that she would literally break down in tears when my wife announced her name. She isn't nasty but she is firm and persistent.

Ray Parks

Consilient Heuristician/IDART Program Manager

V: <a href="tel:505-844-4024" value="+15058444024" target="_blank">505-844-4024 M: <a href="tel:505-238-9359" value="+15052389359" target="_blank">505-238-9359 P: <a href="tel:505-951-6084" value="+15059516084" target="_blank">505-951-6084

NIPR: [hidden email]

SIPR: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)

JWICS: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)

On Jan 14, 2013, at 10:17 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

You know, I wonder what the Pester Threshold is to annoy the beasts (Google, Apple, MS, Amazon, etc.) enough to get results? It likely has some correlation with size and number of products.

I think the "consumer protection agencies" of one flavor or another are just too bureaucratic. Too serious.

But something edgy and different might have a huge and surprising impact.

Just think of all the annoyances you have with completely tone-deaf companies. Just collecting the list would be fascinating. The WiFi example with Google, who *depends* on networking, is just beyond belief.

-- Owen
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Doug Roberts
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http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

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Douglas Roberts-2

Re: [EXTERNAL] Pester Power

Apparently, the EOP is interested in criticisms of Google. A recent hit on Nexus 4 article:

Page Views: 3 (2 this visit)
Entry Page Time: 15 Jan 2013 12:04:55
Visit Length: 2 mins 15 secs
Browser: Chrome 23.0
OS: Win7
Resolution: 1680x1050

Total Visits: 2
Location: Washington, District of Columbia, United States
IP Address: Executive Office Of The President (198.137.241.197) [Label IP Address]
Referring URL: www.linuxtoday.com/upload/has-google-become-institution-bound-130113152507.html
Entry Page: things-linux.blogspot.com/2013/01/has-google-become-institution-bound.html
Exit Page:
things-linux.blogspot.com/2013/01/it-was-known-issue.html

http://198.137.241.197/

198.137.241.197

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Douglas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote:

Love this story, Ray. Firm & persistent can be good traits.

--Doug

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Parks, Raymond <[hidden email]> wrote:

The Pester Threshold is more about who you annoy within the beast than the beast itself. My wife is a past master at pester. Back when I was still in the USAF, our Volvo 265 broke down in Texas while we were visiting parents. We bought a demonstrator 745 off the Volvo dealer in San Antonio. About a month later, I was driving a back road in Bellevue, Nebraska when a back wheel literally fell off. It turned out that the dealer in San Antonio had swapped rims on the demonstrator for some customer who thought the stock 745 rims were "cool". The replacement rims literally wore through the studs and, voila, the wheel fell off. Neither the Omaha Volvo dealer nor the San Antonio Volvo dealer wanted to take responsibility for the problem. My wife worked her way up through the dealers, the regions, and eventually to Volvo USA. She found a way (this was in the '80s) to use a toll-free number to call the president of Volvo USA every hour, on the hour. We didn't have to wait too much longer before the problem was resolved.

The customer service rep for our region of a past health insurance company was the recipient of so many calls from my wife that she would literally break down in tears when my wife announced her name. She isn't nasty but she is firm and persistent.

Ray Parks

Consilient Heuristician/IDART Program Manager

V: <a href="tel:505-844-4024" value="+15058444024" target="_blank">505-844-4024 M: <a href="tel:505-238-9359" value="+15052389359" target="_blank">505-238-9359 P: <a href="tel:505-951-6084" value="+15059516084" target="_blank">505-951-6084

NIPR: [hidden email]

SIPR: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)

JWICS: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)

On Jan 14, 2013, at 10:17 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

You know, I wonder what the Pester Threshold is to annoy the beasts (Google, Apple, MS, Amazon, etc.) enough to get results? It likely has some correlation with size and number of products.

I think the "consumer protection agencies" of one flavor or another are just too bureaucratic. Too serious.

But something edgy and different might have a huge and surprising impact.

Just think of all the annoyances you have with completely tone-deaf companies. Just collecting the list would be fascinating. The WiFi example with Google, who *depends* on networking, is just beyond belief.

-- Owen
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Doug Roberts
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Doug Roberts
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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: [EXTERNAL] Pester Power

On 1/15/13 1:54 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
> Apparently, the EOP is interested in criticisms of Google. A recent
> hit on Nexus 4 article:
Nah, it's an enlightened administration. They run TOR relays. It's
someone else. ;-)

Marcus

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Douglas Roberts-2

Re: [EXTERNAL] Pester Power

TOR relays! Haven't heard that in a while.

On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Marcus G. Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 1/15/13 1:54 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

Apparently, the EOP is interested in criticisms of Google. A recent hit on Nexus 4 article:

Nah, it's an enlightened administration. They run TOR relays. It's someone else. ;-)

Marcus

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Doug Roberts
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http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

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