Friam

Pause the Show

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Steve Smith

Pause the Show

Just Sayin'

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Pause the Show

Compare a controversy over some loose change with the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a federal facility. There is clearly a double standard. If brown or black men had done that there would have been a Predator strike.

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Steve Smith <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 10:19 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Pause the Show

Just Sayin'

gepr

Re: Pause the Show

A friend of mine (whose politics lean slightly right but, you know, he's black so slightly left too) specifically bought his rifle and works on his marksmanship *because* black men with guns scare the bejesus out of us white dudes. He and I sporadically spar about skin color and its impact on development. And I think he really wanted me to react viscerally to him showing off his rifle. Luckily I'm a cold-hearted and callous bastard [†] and only reacted by complimenting his prowess. I feel the same way about liberals with guns. And there also seems to be a paucity of black motorcycle clubs. Why are all biker bars filled with fat, bearded, racists?

[†] http://bastards.org/

On 6/2/20 10:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Compare a controversy over some loose change with the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a federal facility. There is clearly a double standard. If brown or black men had done that there would have been a Predator strike.

--
☣ uǝlƃ

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Pause the Show

I have little interest in that [†], but I think we should get (from insurance) full genome sequencing and analysis as we don't benefit from lookahead concerning heredity. Similarly, I find all this enthusiasm about services like ancestry.com kind of strange, even a little narcissistic. Better to look at people like poor Mr. Floyd who are less like us to inform us about life.

Marcus

On 6/2/20, 11:25 AM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

A friend of mine (whose politics lean slightly right but, you know, he's black so slightly left too) specifically bought his rifle and works on his marksmanship *because* black men with guns scare the bejesus out of us white dudes. He and I sporadically spar about skin color and its impact on development. And I think he really wanted me to react viscerally to him showing off his rifle. Luckily I'm a cold-hearted and callous bastard [†] and only reacted by complimenting his prowess. I feel the same way about liberals with guns. And there also seems to be a paucity of black motorcycle clubs. Why are all biker bars filled with fat, bearded, racists?

[†] http://bastards.org/

On 6/2/20 10:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Compare a controversy over some loose change with the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a federal facility. There is clearly a double standard. If brown or black men had done that there would have been a Predator strike.

--
☣ uǝlƃ

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gepr

Re: Pause the Show

Yeah, my sister's also a bastard. But, unlike me, she cared and hunted down her bio family. It's filled some kinda hole she felt that I've never felt. Just more evidence that communication doesn't exist ... even between 2 people who know about as much about each other as is possible.

On 6/2/20 11:52 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I have little interest in that [†], but I think we should get (from insurance) full genome sequencing and analysis as we don't benefit from lookahead concerning heredity. Similarly, I find all this enthusiasm about services like ancestry.com kind of strange, even a little narcissistic. Better to look at people like poor Mr. Floyd who are less like us to inform us about life.

--
☣ uǝlƃ

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Steve Smith

Re: Pause the Show

In reply to this post by gepr

uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> A friend of mine (whose politics lean slightly right but, you know, he's black so slightly left too) specifically bought his rifle and works on his marksmanship *because* black men with guns scare the bejesus out of us white dudes.
"Ain't nothing scares a white man more than a black man with a gun".
> He and I sporadically spar about skin color and its impact on development. And I think he really wanted me to react viscerally to him showing off his rifle. Luckily I'm a cold-hearted and callous bastard [†] and only reacted by complimenting his prowess. I feel the same way about liberals with guns. And there also seems to be a paucity of black motorcycle clubs. Why are all biker bars filled with fat, bearded, racists?

My favorite "biker bar" is Zeitgeist in the Mission District... there
might be a few fat, bearded racists, but there are also a lot of lean,
grizzled but not shaven bicycle messengers, and a contingent of "leather
men" cruising both of the other demographics I think.   I can pass for a
fat bearded racist... not lean enough for the second nor well enough
groomed for the latter. I don't think of myself as a racist at all,
but of course that is one of the best ways to remain one I suppose.

My (former) sister-in-law was visiting SFo in 2006 to organize lots of
yuppie liberal events, and someone told her to set up her "Drinking
Liberally" event at Zeitgeist. I told her it was an odd choice since I
stopped in now and then on my own, and thought it would be an
interesting anthropological study. It was an interesting mix.   Her
crew were not categorically white Gen-X yuppies, but it was a harsh
contrast.   Everyone got along fine and by the time they were winding
down (and the locals were winding up) there was significant amount of
mixing and discussion.

I haven't been in Zeitgeist for over a decade, it might be a full on
yuppie fern bar ... Or a GenX Rave location, or a Millenial ??? bar by now.

Continue the Show,

- Steve

>
>
> [†] http://bastards.org/
>
> On 6/2/20 10:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> Compare a controversy over some loose change with the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a federal facility. There is clearly a double standard.    If brown or black men had done that there would have been a Predator strike.
>

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Steve Smith

Re: Pause the Show

In reply to this post by gepr

I'm watching Mary's twins grow up from a distance and considering just
what you say: "communication doesn't exist, even between 2 people who
know as much about eachother as is possible".   there are lots of eerie
simultenaeties with them but also quite a bit of divergence.   They are
not identical (one boy and one girl) but there is still a *lot*
shared.   One step closer would require conjoinedness.   I'm curious,
but pretty sure that experience is highly individual if not literally
singular and definitely "none of my business".

Continue the Show,

- Steve

On 6/2/20 1:01 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> Yeah, my sister's also a bastard. But, unlike me, she cared and hunted down her bio family. It's filled some kinda hole she felt that I've never felt. Just more evidence that communication doesn't exist ... even between 2 people who know about as much about each other as is possible.
>
> On 6/2/20 11:52 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> I have little interest in that [†], but I think we should get (from insurance) full genome sequencing and analysis as we don't benefit from lookahead concerning heredity. Similarly, I find all this enthusiasm about services like ancestry.com kind of strange, even a little narcissistic. Better to look at people like poor Mr. Floyd who are less like us to inform us about life.

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Steve Smith

Re: Pause the Show

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

On 6/2/20 11:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

Compare a controversy over some loose change with the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a federal facility. There is clearly a double standard. If brown or black men had done that there would have been a Predator strike.

And don't forget the Red WoMen... we've been doing strikes on them since 1492. The Orbis Spike might have been (mostly) unintentional but the results were devastating.

Some will call this "liberal self-hatred" or "identity politics" but I'm happy to see those who have been categorically abused/neglected/dismissed standing up for themselves and those of us who have not-so-much standing up with them.

The difference between these "protests" even when they look more like "rioting, looting, and vandalism" is that I see a LOT of diversity (both ethnicity and gender) in the crowds, no strong sense that there is any significant threat between protesters, and almost exclusively the violence from protesters against the LEO are in response to the intended intimidating show of force (often directed violence against the protestors). The examples from all over the country of LEO marching/kneeling/mingling with the protestors seem exclusively positive. *most* protestors are not protesting against LEO himself, but against the abuses that are systemic and the tragedies that come with that.

I know there will be (already have been) "collateral damage" but somehow this round feels more good/less bad than previous ones.

Or maybe I'm just getting old and soft hearted(headed).

Resume the Show,

- Steve

From: Friam [hidden email] on behalf of Steve Smith [hidden email]
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 at 10:19 AM
To: [hidden email] [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Pause the Show

Just Sayin'
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Prof David West

Re: Pause the Show

In reply to this post by gepr

Glen,

I won't offer any comments or observations about black motorcycle clubs or biker bars filled with racists. I will offer "credentials" for voicing such, if anyone would be interested in them.

I have just over 200,000 lifetime miles on a motorcycle - almost all of them on Harley's (A Honda Goldwing one summer, a Yamaha 950 for a few months, and a Triumph 650 that was my off-road bike). Spent thousands of hours in biker bars. Was a pre-initiate with the Hell's Angels in Los Angles (left before being patched because they were morphing from outlaw club to criminal enterprise). Wrote an ethnographic thesis and several journal articles on the culture of outlaw clubs. Been to Sturgis many times and all of the major rallies except Daytona.

davew

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020, at 12:25 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:

> A friend of mine (whose politics lean slightly right but, you know,
> he's black so slightly left too) specifically bought his rifle and
> works on his marksmanship *because* black men with guns scare the
> bejesus out of us white dudes. He and I sporadically spar about skin
> color and its impact on development. And I think he really wanted me to
> react viscerally to him showing off his rifle. Luckily I'm a
> cold-hearted and callous bastard [†] and only reacted by complimenting
> his prowess. I feel the same way about liberals with guns. And there
> also seems to be a paucity of black motorcycle clubs. Why are all biker
> bars filled with fat, bearded, racists?
>
>
> [†] http://bastards.org/
>
> On 6/2/20 10:59 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Compare a controversy over some loose change with the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, a federal facility. There is clearly a double standard. If brown or black men had done that there would have been a Predator strike.
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>

gepr

Re: Pause the Show

Very nice! My motorcycle credentials are swamped by my biker bar credentials. 8^) I've been riding for only about 17 years. But I've been going to biker bars since I was ~12 or so, albeit mostly in Texas. As with all clubs, none of the bike clubs I've ever run across would even consider initiating me. I was an amenable curiosity to them at best.

On 6/3/20 10:14 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> I won't offer any comments or observations about black motorcycle clubs or biker bars filled with racists. I will offer "credentials" for voicing such, if anyone would be interested in them.
>
> I have just over 200,000 lifetime miles on a motorcycle - almost all of them on Harley's (A Honda Goldwing one summer, a Yamaha 950 for a few months, and a Triumph 650 that was my off-road bike). Spent thousands of hours in biker bars. Was a pre-initiate with the Hell's Angels in Los Angles (left before being patched because they were morphing from outlaw club to criminal enterprise). Wrote an ethnographic thesis and several journal articles on the culture of outlaw clubs. Been to Sturgis many times and all of the major rallies except Daytona.

--
☣ uǝlƃ

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen

Gary Schiltz-4

Re: Pause the Show

Amenable (and amiable) curiosities are my kind of people :-)

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:25 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <[hidden email]> wrote:

Very nice! My motorcycle credentials are swamped by my biker bar credentials. 8^) I've been riding for only about 17 years. But I've been going to biker bars since I was ~12 or so, albeit mostly in Texas. As with all clubs, none of the bike clubs I've ever run across would even consider initiating me. I was an amenable curiosity to them at best.

On 6/3/20 10:14 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> I won't offer any comments or observations about black motorcycle clubs or biker bars filled with racists. I will offer "credentials" for voicing such, if anyone would be interested in them.
>
> I have just over 200,000 lifetime miles on a motorcycle - almost all of them on Harley's (A Honda Goldwing one summer, a Yamaha 950 for a few months, and a Triumph 650 that was my off-road bike). Spent thousands of hours in biker bars. Was a pre-initiate with the Hell's Angels in Los Angles (left before being patched because they were morphing from outlaw club to criminal enterprise). Wrote an ethnographic thesis and several journal articles on the culture of outlaw clubs. Been to Sturgis many times and all of the major rallies except Daytona.

--
☣ uǝlƃ

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