PRISM
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seems like there are a "few" folks interested in responding to the PRISM
"kerfluffle" by doing something proactive: https://prism-break.org/ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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On 8/29/13 9:27 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> seems like there are a "few" folks interested in responding to the > PRISM "kerfluffle" by doing something proactive: > https://prism-break.org/ Was thinking this sort of thing would be a good Firefox OS (mobile phone) project, and turns out it has been done for Android. Even comes with GPLed 3.0 source code! Perfect! While I don't own an Android phone, and I have disdain for telephones (and other sorts of interruptions), I'd use up all my unused minutes all just to fill up their disk space. https://github.com/WhisperSystems/RedPhone ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 08/29/2013 09:20 PM:
> While I don't own an Android phone, and I have disdain for telephones (and other sorts of interruptions), I'd use up all my unused minutes all just to fill up their disk space. > > https://github.com/WhisperSystems/RedPhone Very cool. I won't have anyone to call, since nobody loves me. But I'll use it ... maybe I can call myself when I buy a new phone! And while I'm empathetic to your disdain for phones, you can't possibly be saying you dislike slick, powerful, palm-sized computational devices. Especially with apps like these: https://www.wuala.com/gepr/public/Screenshot_2013-08-30-08-17-01.png https://www.wuala.com/gepr/public/Screenshot_2013-08-30-08-17-29.png https://www.wuala.com/gepr/public/Screenshot_2013-08-30-08-19-11.png Re: prism-break - I've been trying to use DuckDuckGo for quite a long time. I just can't break the google habit, though. I've tried to split my searches between ddg, yahoo, and alpha. But the "search tools" feature on google is what keeps me coming back. E.g. I saw _news_ of a recently published article on the relationship between low gut biome genetic diversity and obesity. But like so much "news", they don't go into any depth and don't properly cite their sources. So, I tried using ddg to find the new articles. The top results were decent, journal articles from 2011 and such. But in the end, I used google, set the search for the past week, and sure enough, up it pops. I know it's bad form to ask for advice. So, I'll stop just short and say that if anyone _does_ have advice for how to use ddg (or even yahoo for yog's sake) to better effect, I'd be grateful. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella The shooting's easy if you've got the right gun ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Glen: For http://searchengineland.com/, try: http://libguides.edinboro.edu/content.php?pid=24267&sid=1431244
For DuckDuckGo: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/search-experience-duck-duck/ and http://searchengineland.com/library/duckduckgo (NB: SearchEngineLand http://searchengineland.com/ is a good, search industry site)
The "Invisible Web": http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/InvisibleWeb.html UC-B Guide to Meta search engines: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/SearchEngines.html
-tom On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 9:25 AM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote: Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 08/29/2013 09:20 PM: ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by glen ropella
On 8/30/13 9:25 AM, glen wrote:
> I know it's bad form to ask for advice. So, I'll stop just short and > say that if anyone _does_ have advice for how to use ddg (or even > yahoo for yog's sake) to better effect, I'd be grateful. When you care, just use Google, but hide it behind Tor. Fire up tor on system boot, and wrap relevant network programs with torsocks. It will be somewhat slower, but not terrible. It's all standard installs for Fedora, I imagine for gentoo or Debian too. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_torsocks ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by glen ropella
Tom Johnson wrote at 08/30/2013 08:45 AM:> Glen:
> For http://searchengineland.com/, try: > http://libguides.edinboro.edu/content.php?pid=24267&sid=1431244 > For *DuckDuckGo*: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/search-experience-duck-duck/ > and http://searchengineland.com/library/duckduckgo (NB: SearchEngineLand > http://searchengineland.com/ is a good, search industry site) > The *"Invisible Web*": > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/InvisibleWeb.html > UC-B Guide to Meta search engines: > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/SearchEngines.html Thanks, Tom! I'm still left wondering how I can replicate the time filter provided by google's "search tools". I think that may be the _only_ thing that keeps bringing me back to google. Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 08/30/2013 11:22 AM:> On 8/30/13 9:25 AM, glen wrote: > When you care, just use Google, but hide it behind Tor. Fire up tor on system boot, and wrap relevant network programs with torsocks. It will be somewhat slower, but not terrible. It's all standard installs for Fedora, I imagine for gentoo or Debian too. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_torsocks That's good advice, for anything, not just google. But the point is to not use google at all, in response to their evil-doings. (Yes, I fail because I'm still using Drive... it's just too damn convenient... and I'm having some trouble recovering from Calendar, too... but I'm trying to use other services.) Ideally, the more we use ddg, the better it'll get, right? I just need some way to parse the page, check for the age of the info (perhaps with a call to netcraft.com or archive.org?), then re-sort the results. -- -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella Somehow must reflect the truth we feel ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
"That's good advice, for anything, not just google. But the point is to
not use google at all, in response to their evil-doings." The one in the subject line? They don't have a choice in that. Just like encrypted mail services would have to misrepresent their services to customers, because they'd be required to have intercepts available within their systems. So, DuckDuckGo can claim not to track, until they get a subpoena and a gag order telling them that they do. Marcus -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by glen ropella
I do think that the impasse we
(collectively) find ourselves at is a fundamental aspect of the
human condition:
We will (often) take convenience and familiarity over safe or healthy. Our consumer economy has shaped itself around this simple fact. Even "don't be Evil" Google seems to have slid down into a trough of relative evil... maybe we can blame the NSA for using there inordinately large carrots and sticks on them (disgusting image noted, possibly subliminally intended, but not overtly). I have to admit to being intimidated by the array of alternatives... Like Glen (implied?), I find Google so easy/familiar, that anything else sucks by definition. I get whigged on the rare occasion when I search up with my iPhone and get Yahoo search as a default... I"m sure it is fine, but I still feel cheated and vaguely untrusting that there is a better option. And as Glen refined, search by time range is a useful option in Google Advanced Search. I'm glad to see that the "little guy" is standing up... and I feel like a fool to be wishing for this kind of resistance while failing to step up and do my part by even "using" it, much less adding to the code base. But I think the numbers are on our side. Not unlike that of an arms (literal or between pharma and biota, or ...) race. Just when we think we are winning we get a surprise. That in mind, I'm looking forward to Stephanie Forrest's talks at the SFI Ulam series on Sept 10,11,12. http://www.santafe.edu/news/item/ulam-lectures-forrest-announce/Note however, (no dismissal of Stephanie's work nor her personal character), that she is a State Department Fellow and her work has been funded by the DoD and other US Gov't for some time (as much of Academia is naturally) so we should not have any illusions that the NSA and others are not unaware nor poorly advised regarding the phenomena in question. - Steve On 8/30/13 9:25 AM, glen wrote: Marcus G. Daniels wrote at 08/29/2013 09:20 PM: ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
[hidden email] wrote at 08/30/2013 12:36 PM:
> The one in the subject line? They don't have a choice in that. Just > like encrypted mail services would have to misrepresent their services to > customers, because they'd be required to have intercepts available within > their systems. So, DuckDuckGo can claim not to track, until they get a > subpoena and a gag order telling them that they do. Well, it's not merely (or perhaps even mainly) about PRISM. It's more about the systemic evil that is an unavoidable consequence of economies of scale ... or even "success". Google does evil because they're too big. The symptom is that they're a target for impoverished/lazy organizations like our government. They do evil because they homogenize and regularize things (despite the overly _entitled_ amongst us us moaning about how they're not homogenous and banal enough). They're evil in the same way Walmart or Harbor Freight is evil. Make it all the same, dirt cheap (or free), disposable. Corner the market. All in exchange for the identities and personalities of your customers. What's really being bought and sold, here, is individuality and personality. Perversity is becoming our most valuable asset. I'll use DDG until/if everyone else begins using it. Then I'll find some other (dysfunctional) search tool to use. 8^) -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella Swan diving off the tongues of crippled giants ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Marcus -
I feel you nailed it well this time (again). There are definitely a handful of perverse psyches on this list (a handful who speak up anyway, probably a much larger number sitting back, perversely listening to our banter and nodding (up/down, side/side)). I don't know if that is enough, but it is nice to know that Perversity may have benefits beyond it's own intrinsic satisfactions. While I'm not sure that our gov't is categorically impoverished/lazy, it is certainly *larded with* impoverished and lazy strata/elements. Big corporations (such as Google) end up there too... Google being a creature of "Internet Time" may be, like the Replicants of Blade Runner be following the same (burning bright but fast) curve of senescence. All the pre-internet giants hit that wall hard (IBM, DEC, Xerox, Kodak, Microsoft, ... ) no reason to believe that Google and Amazon aren't already hitting a similar wall? To the extent that the founders are still relatively young and in the saddle, it may take another decade... but it seems nearly inevitable? Maybe it is about "Big" (absolute scale, being many orders of magnitude beyond personal scale? or relative scale, being an intellectual/economic superpower?). Or maybe it is about the life cycle of the beast? > [hidden email] wrote at 08/30/2013 12:36 PM: >> The one in the subject line? They don't have a choice in that. Just >> like encrypted mail services would have to misrepresent their >> services to >> customers, because they'd be required to have intercepts available >> within >> their systems. So, DuckDuckGo can claim not to track, until they get a >> subpoena and a gag order telling them that they do. > > Well, it's not merely (or perhaps even mainly) about PRISM. It's more > about the systemic evil that is an unavoidable consequence of > economies of scale ... or even "success". > > Google does evil because they're too big. The symptom is that they're > a target for impoverished/lazy organizations like our government. > They do evil because they homogenize and regularize things (despite > the overly _entitled_ amongst us us moaning about how they're not > homogenous and banal enough). They're evil in the same way Walmart or > Harbor Freight is evil. Make it all the same, dirt cheap (or free), > disposable. Corner the market. All in exchange for the identities and > personalities of your customers. > > What's really being bought and sold, here, is individuality and > personality. Perversity is becoming our most valuable asset. I'll use > DDG until/if everyone else begins using it. Then I'll find some other > (dysfunctional) search tool to use. 8^) > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Steve Smith wrote at 08/30/2013 01:47 PM:
> We will (often) take convenience and familiarity over safe or healthy. Our consumer economy has shaped itself around this simple fact. I'm often berated by Renee' that I make too little money, that I should get some 6 figure job working for someone else on whatever nonsense vision they have. I'm even berated by business partners and colleagues along the same lines. I once asserted to one of my colleagues that we shouldn't simply work as many hours as possible for a client, even/especially when the client demands silly wastes of our time. His response was "Why not?!? If the client wants to pay us to do XYZ stupid thing, and doesn't care how many hours we have to work to achieve that stupid thing, then why not?" My response back to him was, predictably, because we're not really here to make money. We're here to do things, make things, improve things. Their (Renee' and my colleague's) understanding of the world is to profit while you can, then slowly drain the kitty when you've become obsolete. And I don't really have a very good argument against that understanding. All I know is I don't share it. I imagine I'll work for peanuts until I'm obsolete, then burn the rest of my time drunk on MD 20/20 under the nearest bridge. I get that same feeling when I use Amazon, Google, or Costco ... or go to the zoo or Sea World. Are we really here to consume things pre-packaged for us by others? TV as pre-packaged content. Boy bands and American Idol as pre-packaged talent. Even Lady Gaga or Marilyn Manson as pre-packaged perversity. Or, are we really here to pre-package things for others to consume? My guess is Yog intended us to consume whatever we could, then excrete the rest, which some fundamentally different organism would devour as food. If we all eat the _same_ "food" and excrete the same ... uh ... "excrement", then pretty soon, there'll be no "food" and we'll all be waist deep in "excrement". In that sense, I don't mind consumerism. I just mind the homogeny of the consumers. > That in mind, I'm looking forward to Stephanie Forrest's talks at the SFI Ulam series on Sept 10,11,12. > > http://www.santafe.edu/news/item/ulam-lectures-forrest-announce/ Very cool! Thanks for mentioning that. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella And all the lies that you tell me ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
"Are we really here to consume things pre-packaged for us by others?"
Like this! http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/nothing-but-the-soylent-were-trying-1 -full-week-of-the-meal-substitute/ Marcus -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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On 08/30/2013 03:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/08/nothing-but-the-soylent-were-trying-1 > -full-week-of-the-meal-substitute/ Yes! Exactly like that. I can't even imagine _wanting_ to eat that stuff. You might be able to pay me to eat it ... but it would have to be quite a bit of money. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella I've seen the stars disappear in the sun ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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