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On being the Right Size

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plissaman

On being the Right Size

I have read the postings on animal size and characteristics. I woulda thought that canine counter-example demolished the heart beat hypothesis. Didn't Sherlock Holmes comment on "the strange behavior of the dog"?

Some personal experiences are of interest. In 1976 Paul MacCready and I started looking at a human powered flyer. I was responsible for lift and propulsion and studied same. Not having the luxury of Friam correspondents, for whom talk is all, I needed to know the correct results, and incorporate them properly.

There's a lotta data on human power, much from cycle-type ergometers. Conclusions are that, roughly speaking, legs, arms, torso, together or separately, put out about the same amount, and, within reasonable frequency ranges, the power is invariant with rate. Thass why gears on bikes is so good! Human bod a pretty fine machine! This was helpful, since I could design a prop of size and speed that the air liked, and assume our excellent pilot/engine, Bryan Allen, would be able to harness it with his usual consummate style and skill -- and fly! He did!

On the effect of scale, the general result is that smaller animals have a higher power/weight. For example, Mickey (Mus musculis) can do more at his weight than Dumbo (Loxodonta africana). My scaling calculations indicate that the human being is indeed the largest of the animals capable of flight. Many folks find this touching! The Bard did.

" Oh what a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! How infinite in faculty! In form, in moving, how express and admirable! In action, how like an angel! In apprehension, how like a god!'

Peter Lissaman, Da Vinci Ventures

Expertise is not knowing everything, but knowing what to look for.

1454 Miracerros Loop South, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505,USA
tel:(505)983-7728

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Steve Smith

Re: On being the Right Size

Peter -

Thanks for an Inspiring anecdotal bit of history relevant to the current discussion!

Another tiny and maybe interesting animule of "the right size" is the Tardigrade which apparently is the most widely distributed/robust animal life form known so far and in fact has been tested in Space. They can apparently survive extreme temperature (by some measures) ranges from near 0K to 150C (well above boiling), 10 years of dehydration, and 1000x the radiation most organisms can endure. They tend toward .1mm and most interestingly are Eutelic, each adult example having precisely the same number of cells... what an interesting feature. Nematodes and Rotifers also have this property... I wonder at what that means for the neural tissue... seems like all of the "learning" we assume happens through neuron destruction and growth is out of the question for these little buggers. What about that?

I have read the postings on animal size and characteristics. I woulda thought that canine counter-example demolished the heart beat hypothesis. Didn't Sherlock Holmes comment on "the strange behavior of the dog"?

Some personal experiences are of interest. In 1976 Paul MacCready and I started looking at a human powered flyer. I was responsible for lift and propulsion and studied same. Not having the luxury of Friam correspondents, for whom talk is all, I needed to know the correct results, and incorporate them properly.

There's a lotta data on human power, much from cycle-type ergometers. Conclusions are that, roughly speaking, legs, arms, torso, together or separately, put out about the same amount, and, within reasonable frequency ranges, the power is invariant with rate. Thass why gears on bikes is so good! Human bod a pretty fine machine! This was helpful, since I could design a prop of size and speed that the air liked, and assume our excellent pilot/engine, Bryan Allen, would be able to harness it with his usual consummate style and skill -- and fly! He did!

On the effect of scale, the general result is that smaller animals have a higher power/weight. For example, Mickey (Mus musculis) can do more at his weight than Dumbo (Loxodonta africana). My scaling calculations indicate that the human being is indeed the largest of the animals capable of flight. Many folks find this touching! The Bard did.

" Oh what a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! How infinite in faculty! In form, in moving, how express and admirable! In action, how like an angel! In apprehension, how like a god!'

Peter Lissaman, Da Vinci Ventures

Expertise is not knowing everything, but knowing what to look for.

1454 Miracerros Loop South, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505,USA
tel:(505)983-7728
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Frank Wimberly

Re: On being the Right Size

“I wonder at what that means for the neural tissue... seems like all of the "learning" we assume happens through neuron destruction and growth is out of the question for these little buggers. What about that?”

They already know everything—not unlike human adolescents.

Frank

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 9:57 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] On being the Right Size

Peter -

Thanks for an Inspiring anecdotal bit of history relevant to the current discussion!

Another tiny and maybe interesting animule of "the right size" is the Tardigrade which apparently is the most widely distributed/robust animal life form known so far and in fact has been tested in Space. They can apparently survive extreme temperature (by some measures) ranges from near 0K to 150C (well above boiling), 10 years of dehydration, and 1000x the radiation most organisms can endure. They tend toward .1mm and most interestingly are Eutelic, each adult example having precisely the same number of cells... what an interesting feature. Nematodes and Rotifers also have this property... I wonder at what that means for the neural tissue... seems like all of the "learning" we assume happens through neuron destruction and growth is out of the question for these little buggers. What about that?

" Oh what a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! How infinite in faculty! In form, in moving, how express and admirable! In action, how like an angel! In apprehension, how like a god!'

Peter Lissaman, Da Vinci Ventures

Expertise is not knowing everything, but knowing what to look for.

1454 Miracerros Loop South, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505,USA
tel:(505)983-7728

============================================================

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Steve Smith

Re: On being the Right Size

On 10/26/11 1:12 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:

“I wonder at what that means for the neural tissue... seems like all of the "learning" we assume happens through neuron destruction and growth is out of the question for these little buggers. What about that?”

They already know everything—not unlike human adolescents.

Which would include (adolescent know-it-alls?) too many of us who are disguised as adults. I refer to Robert Bly's Sibling Society... with the following quote from the Wikipedia entry on Bly and the book:

In his book The Sibling Society
 (1997), Bly argues that a society formed mainly by half adults is 
extremely problematic as it lacks in leadership, daring initiative, 
creativity and a deep care about others.

I am fascinated with embryology and epigenetics as a *pattern* for other (other than biological) systems.

For example (see Bly quote above), have we as a society/culture/civilization, blunted the development of our individuals, creating a neotenous population which is (conveniently, pointedly?) easier for the powers that be (variously nobility, clergy, "the state", "the church", various ideologically founded groups (political parties?) etc.) to control and manipulate. I'm talking about *us*, not just *them* FWIW.

<Political Rant> The recent comparisons of Occupy to Tea Party folks has been a fun if silly ride.   What I see superficially in common is the adolescent faction or fraction of each.   I would claim that a hallmark of most, if not all of our popular political movements is Bly's " lack in leadership, daring initiative, creativity and a deep care about others", and tends to focus on reactionary and subversive tactics to bring attention to narrow topics in pursuit of winning a public argument.    My line of questioning (of many popular movements) is as to whether there is "deep care about others" in the movement. If there is NOT, it is likely that the movement is either being run/manipulated by others with more grounded (but nefarious) intentions, or it is relatively empty and merely irresponsible venting.

This is not to say that I dont' think there is room for *adolescent angst* providing the energy for an overdue movement. Remembering that one does not have to be in their teens to have adolescent angst (and other properties). I would say that a great deal of the Civil Rights, Equal Rights and the Antiwar movements of the 60's drew their energy or momentum from *adolescent angst* but at the same time there were (more) mature voices providing some level of leadership and vision (e.g. MLK).

I'm more sympathetic with the Occupy movement than I am with the Tea Party, on many principles, but I do see the parallels.

With a nod to the thread's original topic... I wonder if there is a "right size" to social structures and if we have long since exceeded that size?   Blue Whales are (apparently) right sized in the milieu of huge (bouyant) oceans with generous flux of plankton.   Superpowers grew up out of the age of Colonization or during the aftermath consolidation (say post WWI/WWII) from colonization.   City States, Nation States, International Corporations, etc.. seem to be the megafauna in some socio-ecological niche... can we survive? Empires have risen, held and fallen for millenia... and perhaps our current sociopoliticaleconomic behemoths are merely filling the same niches that were created or discovered by such as the Minoan/Egyptian/Greek/Roman/etc. empires of old.

Geoff West's work on the dynamics of Urbanization would seem relevant...

</Political Rant>

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org