Neurons.

[Phil Henshaw-2]

well, 'played through' the DNA, more likely, in case you'd want to quote
me... :)  I think it's more likely that the DNA serves as a stock list
through which the cell's feedback loops go 'shopping', not an
instruction set the cell compelled to follow.  


Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
680 Ft. Washington Ave
NY NY 10040                      
tel: [phone]                
e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com          
explorations: www.synapse9.com    

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Louis Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems
> [mailto:dynbiosys at verizon.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:57 PM
> To: sy at synapse9.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons.
>
>
> I think you hit nail on the head....causation is
> intracellular...it is all encoded in the DNA re: The Selfish
> Gene by Dawkins.
>
> When I try to model the endocrine system I look at all the
> feedback loops and ask where is the setpoint (chicken or egg
> question).  Where and how is the setpoint established and
> what are the significant actors that alter the setpoint.  I
> alway seem to return to the blueprint / DNA and my models
> attempt to cross temporal and spatial scales.  I recently
> worked on Intracranial Pressure modeling with bioengineers
> who approached that question as engineers.  They insisted on
> solving the problem with a "gain" control that had no basis
> in the reality of the physiological system.  I lost out and
> they got published (sour grapes).
>
> Maybe beginning with the genome and then build model
> structure from the known genomic-proteomic-cell signalling
> architecture followed by "in silico" experiments that
> sensitivity test individual and combinatorial stimuli. This
> is why I have stopped some of the modeling that I am doing
> and am taking a look at semantic networks ("ontologies").  I
> am thinking that a modeling effort of a particular
> physiological question must begin with building a
> knowledge-based structural network of fine grain.  From there
> build dynamic models of coarser grain or examine behavior by
> adding nodal connections sequentially.  Perhaps this is done
> at the research institution/university level, but I am
> somewhat out of touch with that world in that I work in a
> rather isolated environment without funding.  That could be a
> lifetime of work.  I wouldn't know how to approach this with
> agents.  I use ODE's in continous event modeling and some
> discrete event modeling.
>
> Start with the stem cell genome and simulate changes in its
> expression during development?  I would think that this is
> the Holy Grail for some. Include me when you look for funding!
>
> Lou
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> To: "'Louis Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems'" <dynbiosys at verizon.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:16 PM
> Subject: RE: [FRIAM] Neurons.
>
>
> You and Jochen both list some of the general advantages of an
> adaptive developmental strategy in forming the neurosystem.  
> The body seems to be full of things built that way, by
> exploratory systems reinforced by feedbacks that remain
> resilient by lots of redundancy and other ways you
> point out.   The rub with all that kind of stuff is that to
> make it work
> the causation has to come from inside the cells.   How the
> heck can you
> impose a design that way?  I still say, from a traditional
> design-build model it makes no sense at all.
>
>
> Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> NY NY 10040
> tel: [phone]
> e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> explorations: www.synapse9.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Louis Macovsky, Dynamic BioSystems
> > [mailto:dynbiosys at verizon.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:32 AM
> > To: sy at synapse9.com; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> > Group
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons.
> >
> >
> > At birth [and before], one neuron does not "know" which
> other neuron
> > to which it should make "contact."  It is from internal and
> external
> > stimuli from which specific contacts are selected.  The
> ability of the
> > developed brain to "normally" react to an external stimuli
> comes from
> > an architecture that has been created during development stages.
> >  A child raised chained and in a closet for 18 years will
> > react differently, physically and emotionally, to external
> > stimuli as compared to a child that has been going to school.
> > Most if not all of the connections made during development
> > are permanent.
> >
> > Synapses allows for this flexibility of "choosing"
> connections during
> > development rather than being hardwired at the get go.
> >
> > IMHO
> > Lou
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> > <friam at redfish.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 4:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons.
> >
> >
> > Yes, the connection at synapses does seem to be a special
> case of how
> > cells are connected generally, through the blood stream or other
> > medium of exchange.  That relationship, cells creating a
> larger system
> > by 'floating messages in a bottle' to each other is this same
> > extremely improbable means of running things that nature uses and
> > seems completely illogical from a machine design point of
> view.  When
> > cells interact with each other they just dump stuff in the stream
> > and grab stuff from the stream (or have it sucked out of them
> > and pushed into them), but there's actually no connection
> > between the cells.
> >
> >
> > Phil Henshaw                       ????.?? ? `?.????
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> > NY NY 10040
> > tel: [phone]
> > e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> > explorations: www.synapse9.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:01 AM
> > > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gaps exists because neurons are not only the building
> block of the
> > > brain and the neural system, they are also cells, the basic
> > building
> > > block of any organic lifeform. Cells existed long before
> any neural
> > > system (in eukaroytic and prokaryotic form). To connect
> neurons by
> > > synapses has the additional advantage of high flexibility and
> > > adaptivity by providing countless possible combinations that are
> > > modifiable during the "runtime" of the system, and by
> offering the
> > > possibility of modulation at the gaps.
> > >
> > > Emotions in general have indeed a strong correlation to
> modulation,
> > > they seem to be a kind of archaic control system which evaluates
> > > situations and controls the behavior (damping undesirable
> behavior
> > > while amplifying desirable actions). They signal the state of the
> > > system and control it at the same time - with the help of
> the reward
> > > system, neural modulators and reinforcment learning. It is no
> > > accident that pleasant stimuli are commonly associated with
> > > reinforcing neural modulators as dopamine.
> > >
> > > -J.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Russell Standish
> > > Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 4:02 AM
> > > To: sy at synapse9.com; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> > > Group
> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Neurons.
> > >
> > > My guess is that the "gaps" or synapses, have a lot to do
> with fine
> > > tuning the amount of damping in the brain's dynamical
> function. It
> > > appears that brains need to operate near the "edge of
> > chaos", and some
> > > global control system fine tuning this would be desirable.
> > >
> > > This probably explains the evolution of emotions.
> > >
> > > Phil Husband's group in Sussex have done a fair bit of work with
> > > "GasNets", which is inspired by the design, to make
> > effective robotic
> > > controllers.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> > > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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