Metaphors Language
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In a Dec 2005 article I just came across:
Envisioning a New Language: A Conversation With Sun Microsystems' Victoria Livschitz at http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Interviews/livschitz2_qa.html Ms Livschitz talks about "Metaphors". Seems some aspects of the concept relies on 'emergent bahavior'. Isn't that risky? Does anyone know how this endeavour is progressing... and does she have a point? Robert Cordingley |
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The part that bothers me is this:
"Let me pick the runtime characteristics first. Here, Metaphors borrows many ideas from the Java language, Java Platform, Enterprise Edition (Java EE) architecture, <http://java.sun.com/developer/products/jini/index.jsp>Jini technology, and the <http://java.sun.com/othertech/jxta/index.jsp>JXTA project. I assume that local runtime environments for programs would be provided by a virtual machine (VM). However, I'd like to go much further down the path of giving the local virtual machine (LVM) the ability to act as a container for managed application code." Doesn't sound like a great platform to me, though there's so little info there, it's hard to guess. At 11:28 AM 3/21/2006 -0600, Robert Cordingley wrote: >In a Dec 2005 article I just came across: > >Envisioning a New Language: A Conversation With Sun Microsystems' >Victoria Livschitz > >at >http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Interviews/livschitz2_qa.html >Ms Livschitz talks about "Metaphors". Seems some aspects of the concept >relies on 'emergent bahavior'. Isn't that risky? Does anyone know how >this endeavour is progressing... and does she have a point? > >Robert Cordingley > >============================================================ >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20060321/1550acde/attachment.htm |
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In reply to this post by Robert J. Cordingley
I cannot follow her, she uses too many empty words like local virtual machine (LVM) or distributed runtime core (DRC). It is unclear what she actually means with "executable entity" (agents?), "formal extensibility framework" and "contextual programming". The idea of considering the first 50 years of computing as one gigantic failure and to start over from the scratch seems to be widespread at Sun, Richard P. Gabriel for example works at the Sun Research Labs on an obscure "Self Sustaining Systems Project". http://research.sun.com/people/mybio.php?uid=58048 The Feyerabend Project initiated by Gabriel claims that we have to "redefining computing", but unfortunately it does not say how http://www.dreamsongs.com/Feyerabend/Feyerabend.html Victoria Livschitz is a senior IT architect. According to the Peter Principle (see http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PETERPR.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle), in a hierarchically structured bureaucratic administration, people tend to be promoted up to their "level of incompetence", and most of the higher levels of a bureaucracy will be filled by incompetent people. I hope it doesn't apply here. -J. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Cordingley Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:29 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Metaphors Language In a Dec 2005 article I just came across: Envisioning a New Language: A Conversation With Sun Microsystems' Victoria Livschitz at http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Interviews/livschitz2_qa.htm l Ms Livschitz talks about "Metaphors". Seems some aspects of the concept relies on 'emergent bahavior'. Isn't that risky? Does anyone know how this endeavour is progressing... and does she have a point? Robert Cordingley ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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> The idea of considering the first 50 years of computing as
> one gigantic failure and to start over from the scratch > seems to be widespread at Sun, Richard P. Gabriel for example > works at the Sun Research Labs on an obscure > "Self Sustaining Systems Project". Jochen, IBM and Microsoft have been working on similar projects - Autonomic Computing and Dynamic Systems Initiative (DSI) - for years. --Mikhail ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <Friam at redfish.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Metaphors Language > > I cannot follow her, she uses too many empty words > like local virtual machine (LVM) or distributed runtime > core (DRC). It is unclear what she actually means with > "executable entity" (agents?), "formal extensibility framework" > and "contextual programming". > > The idea of considering the first 50 years of computing as > one gigantic failure and to start over from the scratch > seems to be widespread at Sun, Richard P. Gabriel for example > works at the Sun Research Labs on an obscure > "Self Sustaining Systems Project". > http://research.sun.com/people/mybio.php?uid=58048 > > The Feyerabend Project initiated by Gabriel claims that > we have to "redefining computing", but unfortunately > it does not say how > http://www.dreamsongs.com/Feyerabend/Feyerabend.html > > Victoria Livschitz is a senior IT architect. According > to the Peter Principle (see http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PETERPR.html > and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle), > in a hierarchically structured bureaucratic administration, > people tend to be promoted up to their "level of incompetence", > and most of the higher levels of a bureaucracy will be filled > by incompetent people. I hope it doesn't apply here. > > -J. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:Friam-bounces at redfish.com] On > Behalf > Of Robert Cordingley > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:29 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: [FRIAM] Metaphors Language > > In a Dec 2005 article I just came across: > > Envisioning a New Language: A Conversation With Sun Microsystems' > Victoria Livschitz > > at > http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Interviews/livschitz2_qa.htm > l > Ms Livschitz talks about "Metaphors". Seems some aspects of the concept > relies on 'emergent bahavior'. Isn't that risky? Does anyone know how > this endeavour is progressing... and does she have a point? > > Robert Cordingley > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > |
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I know the Autonomic Computing vision - your laptop will heal itself if you drop it on the floor - but I doubt that Microsoft has worked for years on the Dynamic Systems Initiative. It is more a marketing invention of an unimportant Microsoft sub-division. I doubt that the initiative has highest priority, it is more likely a response to the Autonomic Computing vision from IBM. The original interview with Jaron Lanier is much better: "if you make a small change to a program, it can result in an enormous change in what the program does [it throws an exception or stops working at all]. If nature worked that way, the universe would crash all the time." http://java.sun.com/features/2003/01/lanier_qa1.html http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/25/1511236 It agrees with some statements from John von Neumann (1903-1957) who said "It's very likely that on the basis of the philosophy that every error has to be caught, explained, and corrected, a system of the complexity of the living organism would not run for a millisecond [...] [an organic] system is sufficiently flexible and well organized that as soon as an error shows up in any part of it, the system automatically senses whether this error matters or not. If it doesn't matter, the system continues to operate without paying any attention to it. If the error seems to the system to be important, the system blocks that region out, by-passes it, and proceeds along other channels. [...] The duration of operability is determined by the time it takes until so many incurable errors have occurred, so many alterations and permanent by-passes have been made, that finally the operability is really impaired." -J. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mikhail Gorelkin Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:11 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Metaphors Language IBM and Microsoft have been working on similar projects - Autonomic Computing and Dynamic Systems Initiative (DSI) - for years. --Mikhail |
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Beyond DSI is the Decision Theory and Adaptive Systems Group of MS Research.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jochen Fromm" <[hidden email]> To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'" <Friam at redfish.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Metaphors Language > > I know the Autonomic Computing vision - your laptop will > heal itself if you drop it on the floor - but I doubt that > Microsoft has worked for years on the Dynamic Systems > Initiative. It is more a marketing invention of > an unimportant Microsoft sub-division. I doubt that > the initiative has highest priority, it is more likely > a response to the Autonomic Computing vision from IBM. > > The original interview with Jaron Lanier is much better: > "if you make a small change to a program, it can > result in an enormous change in what the program does > [it throws an exception or stops working at all]. If > nature worked that way, the universe would crash all > the time." > http://java.sun.com/features/2003/01/lanier_qa1.html > http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/25/1511236 > > It agrees with some statements from John von Neumann > (1903-1957) who said > "It's very likely that on the basis of the philosophy that > every error has to be caught, explained, and corrected, a > system of the complexity of the living organism would not > run for a millisecond [...] [an organic] system is sufficiently > flexible and well organized that as soon as an error shows > up in any part of it, the system automatically senses > whether this error matters or not. If it doesn't matter, > the system continues to operate without paying any attention > to it. If the error seems to the system to be important, > the system blocks that region out, by-passes it, and > proceeds along other channels. [...] The duration of operability > is determined by the time it takes until so many incurable > errors have occurred, so many alterations and permanent > by-passes have been made, that finally the operability is > really impaired." > > -J. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:Friam-bounces at redfish.com] On > Behalf > Of Mikhail Gorelkin > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 1:11 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Metaphors Language > > IBM and Microsoft have been working on similar projects - > Autonomic Computing and Dynamic Systems Initiative (DSI) - for years. > > --Mikhail > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > |
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