Mailing list problems?

[Robert Holmes]

Hi there FRIAM list administrators,
I've not been able to see or make FRIAM posts since Jan 17. I usually post through my Gmail account - has your ISP (HostGo? Cybermesa?) done a blanket block on Gmail since their spam disaster a week ago?

Robert

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20080127/5ab472f3/attachment.html 

[Giles Bowkett]

On 1/27/08, robert at holmesacosta.com <robert at holmesacosta.com> wrote:
> Hi there FRIAM list administrators,
> I've not been able to see or make FRIAM posts since Jan 17. I usually post
> through my Gmail account - has your ISP (HostGo? Cybermesa?) done a blanket
> block on Gmail since their spam disaster a week ago?

fwiw, I'm seeing this post via Gmail. If my reply shows up, it'll have
come from Gmail as well.

(I have heard complaints elsewhere about Gmail acting weird recently, though.)

--
Giles Bowkett

Podcast: http://hollywoodgrit.blogspot.com
Blog: http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com
Portfolio: http://www.gilesgoatboy.org
Tumblelog: http://giles.tumblr.com

[Steve Smith]

Stephen/Owen -

You reported some pretty amazing results using a directional antennae
with 802.11g 6 months or more ago.

I'm trying to solve a problem for my mother-in-law (pressure is ON)
where she formerly picked up her network via 802.11g from her son's
house about 100ft from hers.  

A few weeks ago something changed abruptly and the apparent signal at
her house (in the window facing the window his router is in) dropped
from marginal to abysmal...   basically she can no longer get network
from the wireless from inside her house.

I'm  looking at the possibility of repeaters and of external antenna(e),
etc.   I haven't seen the router, it was provided by Qwest and doesn't
sound like a Linksys from her description.  They've done some channel
hopping on the off chance it was just interference, with no results.

Both houses may be "well shielded"... he is an architect/builder and I'm
pretty sure used reflective-foil fiberglass insulation in his walls and
he clad her entire house in corrugated steel.  This is why I wasn't
surprised before when she had to go to a window in her house to get his
signal.  Actually I was surprised she got anything at all.

These two psuedo-faraday-cage houses are why I imagined a repeater (in
her window) and possibly a directional antennae (in his window) would
likely do the trick.

Any thoughts/ideas/observations?   As much as I like to experiment, I
don't like doing it in front of my in-laws (I'm probably about to find
out they are subscribers to this list!)

- Steve

[Lanny Goodman]

i have set up a wireless bridge in the past between offices that worked very
well.  a couple of inexpensive linksys bridge boxes and a couple of
directional antennae which i mounted outside.  the whole setup cost maybe
$200-300 which was a lot less than burying a cable.  don't know if an
exterior installation is an option for you, but if you have line of sight
through a window, it would probably work.

all the best,

lanny goodman
albuquerque



On 1/27/08 10:38 AM, "Steve Smith" <sasmyth at swcp.com> wrote:

> Stephen/Owen -
>
> You reported some pretty amazing results using a directional antennae
> with 802.11g 6 months or more ago.
>
> I'm trying to solve a problem for my mother-in-law (pressure is ON)
> where she formerly picked up her network via 802.11g from her son's
> house about 100ft from hers.
>
> A few weeks ago something changed abruptly and the apparent signal at
> her house (in the window facing the window his router is in) dropped
> from marginal to abysmal...   basically she can no longer get network
> from the wireless from inside her house.
>
> I'm  looking at the possibility of repeaters and of external antenna(e),
> etc.   I haven't seen the router, it was provided by Qwest and doesn't
> sound like a Linksys from her description.  They've done some channel
> hopping on the off chance it was just interference, with no results.
>
> Both houses may be "well shielded"... he is an architect/builder and I'm
> pretty sure used reflective-foil fiberglass insulation in his walls and
> he clad her entire house in corrugated steel.  This is why I wasn't
> surprised before when she had to go to a window in her house to get his
> signal.  Actually I was surprised she got anything at all.
>
> These two psuedo-faraday-cage houses are why I imagined a repeater (in
> her window) and possibly a directional antennae (in his window) would
> likely do the trick.
>
> Any thoughts/ideas/observations?   As much as I like to experiment, I
> don't like doing it in front of my in-laws (I'm probably about to find
> out they are subscribers to this list!)
>
> - Steve
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Birchard Hayes]

Steve,

You might look at http://www.binarywolf.com/249/pringles_cantenna.htm 
for inspiration.  They have a lot of different point-to-point d.i.y.  
solutions.  Alternatively, you could just go get two Linksys Wireless-
G Access Points, WAP54G, and the High Gain Antennae kit (worked at my  
house and was under $200 for everything.)  Then simply bridge the two  
access points.  The access points are worth using regardless of the  
antenna solution since they have decent gain, support WPA encryption,  
and have the correct antenna connector for any of the d.i.y. solutions.

Birch

On Jan 27, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Steve Smith wrote:

> Stephen/Owen -
>
> You reported some pretty amazing results using a directional antennae
> with 802.11g 6 months or more ago.
>
> I'm trying to solve a problem for my mother-in-law (pressure is ON)
> where she formerly picked up her network via 802.11g from her son's
> house about 100ft from hers.
>
> A few weeks ago something changed abruptly and the apparent signal at
> her house (in the window facing the window his router is in) dropped
> from marginal to abysmal...   basically she can no longer get network
> from the wireless from inside her house.
>
> I'm  looking at the possibility of repeaters and of external  
> antenna(e),
> etc.   I haven't seen the router, it was provided by Qwest and doesn't
> sound like a Linksys from her description.  They've done some channel
> hopping on the off chance it was just interference, with no results.
>
> Both houses may be "well shielded"... he is an architect/builder and  
> I'm
> pretty sure used reflective-foil fiberglass insulation in his walls  
> and
> he clad her entire house in corrugated steel.  This is why I wasn't
> surprised before when she had to go to a window in her house to get  
> his
> signal.  Actually I was surprised she got anything at all.
>
> These two psuedo-faraday-cage houses are why I imagined a repeater (in
> her window) and possibly a directional antennae (in his window) would
> likely do the trick.
>
> Any thoughts/ideas/observations?   As much as I like to experiment, I
> don't like doing it in front of my in-laws (I'm probably about to find
> out they are subscribers to this list!)
>
> - Steve
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong  
reasons.
                                            ~R. Buckminster Fuller

   **** Use of advanced messaging technology does not imply ****
   ***** an endorsement of western industrial civilization *****

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Steve Smith wrote:
> A few weeks ago something changed abruptly and the apparent signal at
> her house (in the window facing the window his router is in) dropped
> from marginal to abysmal...   basically she can no longer get network
> from the wireless from inside her house.
>
> I'm  looking at the possibility of repeaters and of external antenna(e),
> etc.  
With a some wireless routers..

http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16132

.. there's the possibility of a firmware upgrade such that one can
increase the power output (e.g. from 50mW to 1000mW).

[Carl Tollander]

The little plug-in-the-wall Airports do repeater duty, I think, and
aren't that pricey.   The big Airport Extremes are pricey but have a
spot for external antenna, have a signal-strength knob (don't watch the
food cook) and can also be used as a repeater.  Much easier (IMHO) to
set up than the Linksys, though I haven't needed try to do the repeater
thing.

Does she have a new portable phone or other RF source and is she really
using g?  You might also have a freeloader in the neighborhood that is
competing.   I've had situations where performance was bad, so I put in
MAC address security and things got dramatically better.  Sometimes just
moving the antenna over a few inches or mounting it higher up on a wall
can make a big difference.

C.

Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

> Steve Smith wrote:
>  
>> A few weeks ago something changed abruptly and the apparent signal at
>> her house (in the window facing the window his router is in) dropped
>> from marginal to abysmal...   basically she can no longer get network
>> from the wireless from inside her house.
>>
>> I'm  looking at the possibility of repeaters and of external antenna(e),
>> etc.  
>>    
> With a some wireless routers..
>
> http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16132
>
> .. there's the possibility of a firmware upgrade such that one can
> increase the power output (e.g. from 50mW to 1000mW).
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
>  

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Carl Tollander wrote:
> You might also have a freeloader in the neighborhood that is competing.
whoops..

http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html

[Owen Densmore]

Hi Steve.  Stephen and I and a few others were looking into building a  
"community wireless network" .. basically a way to lash together  
several users sharing a T1 or similar broadband wired access.  This is  
pretty sophisticated stuff, with Power Over Ethernet (POE), antennas,  
outside utility boxes with wireless routers and so on.

This is different than simply extending the range of a wireless base  
station, which is likely what you'd find workable.  I've not used a  
repeater, but as I understand it, most wireless base stations can be  
configured to be an intermediate bridge between a client and a base  
station.  The airport express is a small "wall wart" that does this  
rather nicely.  Google "Wireless repeater" for lots of hints.

As mentioned by others, better antennas can help too.  The sudden  
change is often due to foliage and similar environmental things.

Our earlier rigs had roof-top antennas aimed carefully at the land-
line house which had an omni antenna.  The wireless community network  
was a WAN network, with an ethernet snaked into the house, and which  
also powered the roof-top basestation via POE.  Oddly enough, you'd  
need another wireless basestation if wireless LAN was desired inside  
the house!  Hard to grok.

     -- Owen


On Jan 27, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Steve Smith wrote:

> Stephen/Owen -
>
> You reported some pretty amazing results using a directional  
> antennae with 802.11g 6 months or more ago.
>
> I'm trying to solve a problem for my mother-in-law (pressure is ON)  
> where she formerly picked up her network via 802.11g from her son's  
> house about 100ft from hers.
> A few weeks ago something changed abruptly and the apparent signal  
> at her house (in the window facing the window his router is in)  
> dropped from marginal to abysmal...   basically she can no longer  
> get network from the wireless from inside her house.
>
> I'm  looking at the possibility of repeaters and of external  
> antenna(e), etc.   I haven't seen the router, it was provided by  
> Qwest and doesn't sound like a Linksys from her description.  
> They've done some channel hopping on the off chance it was just  
> interference, with no results.
>
> Both houses may be "well shielded"... he is an architect/builder and  
> I'm pretty sure used reflective-foil fiberglass insulation in his  
> walls and he clad her entire house in corrugated steel.  This is why  
> I wasn't surprised before when she had to go to a window in her  
> house to get his signal.  Actually I was surprised she got anything  
> at all.
>
> These two psuedo-faraday-cage houses are why I imagined a repeater  
> (in her window) and possibly a directional antennae (in his window)  
> would likely do the trick.
>
> Any thoughts/ideas/observations?   As much as I like to experiment,  
> I don't like doing it in front of my in-laws (I'm probably about to  
> find out they are subscribers to this list!)
>
> - Steve

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Owen Densmore wrote:
> basically a way to lash together  
> several users sharing a T1 or similar broadband wired access.
You may want to take a look at Sveasoft's Talisman/Mesh firmware..

"Talisman/Mesh supports the following features -

1) Automatic discovery of neighbor mesh nodes
2) Automatic address assignment among mesh nodes
3) Automatic routing and route distribution
4) Automatic distribution of nameservers
5) Automatic distribution of hostnames

Talisman/Mesh is designed to solve a series of issues that make
deployment of wide area wireless networks problematic. Normally wireless
networks with more than a single AP require manual linking, IP address
assignment, routing, and there is little or no failover.

Talisman/Mesh is designed to allow spontaneous creation of wireless
networks with 2 or more AP nodes with a minimum of setup and maintenance. "

Marcus

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Owen Densmore wrote:
> basically a way to lash together  
> several users sharing a T1 or similar broadband wired access.
You may want to take a look at Sveasoft's Talisman/Mesh firmware..

"Talisman/Mesh supports the following features -

1) Automatic discovery of neighbor mesh nodes
2) Automatic address assignment among mesh nodes
3) Automatic routing and route distribution
4) Automatic distribution of nameservers
5) Automatic distribution of hostnames

Talisman/Mesh is designed to solve a series of issues that make
deployment of wide area wireless networks problematic. Normally wireless
networks with more than a single AP require manual linking, IP address
assignment, routing, and there is little or no failover.

Talisman/Mesh is designed to allow spontaneous creation of wireless
networks with 2 or more AP nodes with a minimum of setup and maintenance.

The only items that must be common among all wireless nodes in a
Talisman/Mesh network are the wireless SSID and channel. If encryption
is enabled, you must also use the same encryption method and keys
throughout the mesh.

The mesh firmware supports the Apple Rendezvous/Bonjour protocol for
remote administration. Mesh nodes are automatically discovered and
listed on any Macintosh computers connected to a mesh cloud. For Windows
machines please download and install Apple's free Bonjour package for
Windows from http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bonjour . When Bonjour
for Windows is installed you can browse and administer all mesh nodes
within a cloud by clicking on the Bonjour button from within Internet
Explorer. For Linux and BSD Unix please install the avahi
Rendezvous/Bonjour suite."

Marcus

[Owen Densmore]

Mesh was certainly the conclusion we reached after working out the  
logistics of a modest community network, especially with non-technical  
members.

Our goal, after trying one, was to use an outdoor rubberized utility  
box which included its own plainer antenna with modest gain.  The idea  
is to make it so simple to mount on the side of the house that by  
simply supplying it with the POE connection, it would configure itself  
and be a node on the network.

Mesh networking was not widely working yet, and the key problem not  
solved was "bonding" multiple land lines in different homes.  The hope  
was that as individuals within the mesh gained land-line broadband,  
they'd still want to stay on the wireless WAN because it would both  
offer increased bandwidth and a fallback when their broadband failed.

Mesh is clearly the best way to go if you can get the software into  
whatever AP used.

BTW: La Canada Wireless is a very effective community network:
   http://www.lcwireless.com/MainPage.html
.. they don't yet use mesh, they've been in place for years and thus  
would face a huge conversion process.  They helped us understand the  
difficulties/joys of a community network, and had all the war stories  
you could want!   :)

     -- Owen


On Jan 28, 2008, at 6:38 PM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

> Owen Densmore wrote:
>> basically a way to lash together
>> several users sharing a T1 or similar broadband wired access.
> You may want to take a look at Sveasoft's Talisman/Mesh firmware..
>
> "Talisman/Mesh supports the following features -
>
> 1) Automatic discovery of neighbor mesh nodes
> 2) Automatic address assignment among mesh nodes
> 3) Automatic routing and route distribution
> 4) Automatic distribution of nameservers
> 5) Automatic distribution of hostnames
>
> Talisman/Mesh is designed to solve a series of issues that make
> deployment of wide area wireless networks problematic. Normally  
> wireless
> networks with more than a single AP require manual linking, IP address
> assignment, routing, and there is little or no failover.
>
> Talisman/Mesh is designed to allow spontaneous creation of wireless
> networks with 2 or more AP nodes with a minimum of setup and  
> maintenance. "
>
> Marcus

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Owen Densmore wrote:
> Mesh networking was not widely working yet, and the key problem not  
> solved was "bonding" multiple land lines in different homes.  The hope  
> was that as individuals within the mesh gained land-line broadband,  
> they'd still want to stay on the wireless WAN because it would both  
> offer increased bandwidth and a fallback when their broadband failed.
>  
In principle it ought to be possible, in practice it looks to me (from
the support list) like they are still working out some kinks.

It would be nice to have something better than a modem fallback..

Marcus

[Don Begley]

On Jan 29, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote:

> It would be nice to have something better than a modem fallback..

I'm on La Canada Wireless with close to 24/7 service but there are  
parts of the system that have to fall back on their modems with  
regularity. Even with large numbers of volunteer tech hours, they're  
not sure what causes those areas to fail.

d-