JavaScript ecology

[Owen Densmore]

At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and it's  
renaissance in the computing world.  Here are some notes folks asked  
for.

Theme: Chrome, Firefox, Safari etc are building much more  
sophisticated javascript implementations, including developer tools  
for debugging and DOM (Document Object Model) browsing.  The DOM is  
the xml hierarchy internal to all web pages, and accessible by JS.  
This sophistication, coupled with JS being the most widely deployed  
language on the planet (in every browser and most phones too), is  
building interest in JS as the most interesting programming  
environment for a wide variety of uses.

Books: The recent book, JavaScript the Good Parts, has raised the  
awareness of just how nifty a language JS is, including Closures and  
Prototypal inheritance.  JavaScript: The Definitive Guide, provides  
the reference that coupled with the first book builds a complete  
foundation for learning JS.

Architecture: JS is not only in the browser, it now is available  
standalone as a desktop shell (Rhino, Spidermonkey, etc), letting you  
try JS phrases easily.  SSJS (Server Side JS) is blossoming too,  
letting the same language be used on the client and server.  This is  
very important considering Rails (Ruby server, JS client) Django  
(Python server, JS client) is confusing for most programmers.  One on  
both sides would be better, and with Rhino on the server, you can  
access all of Java via the Rhino-Java bridge.  To complete this, the  
AJAX communication can also move from XML to JSON, the JavaScript  
Object Notation .. just JS data structures.  Thus the Web 2.0  
complexity goes from (Ruby/Python/.. XML JS) to (JS JS JS).

Libraries: JS libraries are flourishing, new ones daily!  There are JS  
libraries for building AppleScript widgets. JS is the scripting  
language for Flex, Flash, AIR, and a host of others.  Prototype and  
jQuery and others provide a base level library for browser  
interoperability.  Many visual libraries exist, even processing.js  
which implements our popular Processing system.  And here's the  
sweetest part: the libraries are delivered as URLs!  That's right, you  
don't have to build a bundle including the libraries you plan to use.  
Instead you include a URL reference in your HTML header or SSJS load  
statements.

Frameworks: Rails, Django and other systems are now receiving  
competition that are entirely in JS .. again blurring the difference  
between client and server.  JS even has optional templating which can  
occur on either the server or client.  Jaxer, from Aptana, moves this  
even further: any DOM traversal can occur on the client or the  
server! .. it keeps a full copy of the browser's environment on the  
server side, using Firefox spidermonkey.  Whew!

IDEs: Eclipse and Aptana Studio (build on eclipse) provide integrated  
HTML,CSS,JS,DOM programming and debugging.  Aptana Studio includes a  
local Jaxer server as well.  Jaxer is open source and can be deployed  
on non-Aptana ISPs.  Komodo and IDEA are for-pay systems that are also  
liked by many.  There are several Eclipse based plug-ins that are also  
popular, a few for pay.  The hard part is factoring HTML,CSS,JS,DOM  
nicely.

Cloud: Aptana provides a scalable cloud site, including Jaxer and a  
soon to be completed Rails-like framework called ActiveJS.  Google App  
Engine (GAE) supports Java now, including Rhino JS. A Google engineer  
is working on Rhino on Rails!  Helma is another JS/Rhino framework.  
Trimpath/Junction is another Google code SSJS framework.  Joyent  
bought Reasonably Smart (GIT/JS Software as a Service) and they are  
rolling out a JS/Cloud framework.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.  I could go on about XMPP JSON  
encapsulation, HTML canvas and SVG graphics, KML/GIS, JS Lint, JS  
Pythonic extensions, PhoneGap, Axiom Stack, Lively Kernel, Google Docs  
API, Google Maps, ... and more, but the point here is that I think the  
JavaScript ecology is really interesting and worth looking into.  
Although the technologies I mention may seem overwhelming, its just  
the reverse.  Its a single language and its methodology everywhere.  
This is a vast simplification.

     -- Owen



============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Dale Schumacher]

Build not your house on sand.

Regrettably, I fear it is far too late for that advice.

As Crockford himself writes, there were a lot of poor implementation
decisions made in the design of JavaScript.  And there are a lot of
people who've written code that relies on what he called the "Awful
Parts" and the "Bad Parts".

JavaScript and its derivatives are certainly important, and increasing
popular, technologies.  And it's ubiquitous availability has
definitely led me to use it, for web design, but also for prototyping
other ideas.  Ultimately, I expect, its design flaws will lead to a
collapse, forcing us to move on to yet another platform.

Enjoy the ride.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Owen Densmore<[hidden email]> wrote:
> At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and it's
> renaissance in the computing world.
--- lots of excellent information removed. see the original thread for
details ---

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Douglas Roberts-2]

Ooh!  My kind of a comment.  Gloomy, pessimistic, dark.

I like it!

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Dale Schumacher <[hidden email]> wrote:

Build not your house on sand.

Regrettably, I fear it is far too late for that advice.

As Crockford himself writes, there were a lot of poor implementation
decisions made in the design of JavaScript.  And there are a lot of
people who've written code that relies on what he called the "Awful
Parts" and the "Bad Parts".

JavaScript and its derivatives are certainly important, and increasing
popular, technologies.  And it's ubiquitous availability has
definitely led me to use it, for web design, but also for prototyping
other ideas.  Ultimately, I expect, its design flaws will lead to a
collapse, forcing us to move on to yet another platform.

Enjoy the ride.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Owen Densmore<[hidden email]> wrote:
> At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and it's
> renaissance in the computing world.

--- lots of excellent information removed. see the original thread for
details ---

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Owen Densmore]

Sweet!

I did fail to describe what motivated the conversation to begin with:  
writing sophisticated client/server/peer applications in team  
programming projects.

Ones you write both the client, server and communication code.  Not  
"pick a CMS and use it".  Something big.  And new.  And who's "Hello  
World" really could span the globe.  And one who's deployment was  
*really* simple .. in this case one URL.

Most of us do not do this sort of thing.  We build a core technology  
project for a minimum of 5 years in a solid language: C/C++/Java/...  
Or we build shorter projects like web sites using a CMS, mainly server  
side, matching our skills or our client requirements, hopefully both.

But when you really have to do something new as Steve and I did  
recently which mixed Google App Engine, Google Data Store, Google  
Maps, team SVN usage, JavaScript, XML/Ajax, Python, lat/lng to/from  
street addresses, HTML/CSS, DOM parsing, Cloud computing, ... you  
start to re-think your options.

One huge and humbling surprise: how difficult it is to use two  
different languages (Python and Javascript) in equal measure on a  
single project.  I had prided myself on being able to use a lot of  
different languages .. but I never did so on one project.

This is important for the sfComplex, where we are striving to build a  
project space, doing many sophisticated team projects blending  
science, tech, visualization, client/server/peer computing.  This is  
harder than we had thought.

Hence the interest in a way to simplify, yet remain sophisticated.  
May fail, due to all the below.  But maybe not.

     -- Owen


On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

> Ooh!  My kind of a comment.  Gloomy, pessimistic, dark.
>
> I like it!
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Dale Schumacher <[hidden email]
> > wrote:
> Build not your house on sand.
>
> Regrettably, I fear it is far too late for that advice.
>
> As Crockford himself writes, there were a lot of poor implementation
> decisions made in the design of JavaScript.  And there are a lot of
> people who've written code that relies on what he called the "Awful
> Parts" and the "Bad Parts".
>
> JavaScript and its derivatives are certainly important, and increasing
> popular, technologies.  And it's ubiquitous availability has
> definitely led me to use it, for web design, but also for prototyping
> other ideas.  Ultimately, I expect, its design flaws will lead to a
> collapse, forcing us to move on to yet another platform.
>
> Enjoy the ride.
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Owen Densmore<[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
> > At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and  
> it's
> > renaissance in the computing world.
> --- lots of excellent information removed. see the original thread for
> details ---

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Carrera, Fabio]

Cool beans! (not the Java kind)

 

Here in Italy, everyone is waiting for the Complex to come up with the next paradigm for urban data management…

Santa Fe carries quite a cachet…  I look forward to a simple, elegant Occamesque solution that will revolutionize my world of urban and environmental management and planning.  The mother of all platforms.  The paradigm to end all paradigms.  Urban Data Agents and Pipes…

 

Meanwhile, I will enjoy the Redentore festival here tonight, celebrating the end of the plague of 1575… 

Obviously people remember BAD things much longer than the good stuff…

 

Ciao

 

Fabio

 

------------------------------------------

Fabio Carrera, Ph.D.

WWW | Blog | Wiki | Fb | Tw | Wh?

US Cell: [phone] | US Off: [phone] (until Jul.9)

IT  Cell: [phone] | IT  Off: [phone] (Jul.11- Aug. 6)

Skype: carrerawpi

[in MA until July 9, then in Venice until Aug. 6, then back in Santa Fe around Aug. 12...     then where?]

>>>             V e n i c e   A n n i v e r s a r y   W e b   S i t e             <<<

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:25 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: General topics & issues
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [FRIAM] JavaScript ecology

 

Sweet!

 

I did fail to describe what motivated the conversation to begin with: 

writing sophisticated client/server/peer applications in team 

programming projects.

 

Ones you write both the client, server and communication code.  Not 

"pick a CMS and use it".  Something big.  And new.  And who's "Hello 

World" really could span the globe.  And one who's deployment was 

*really* simple .. in this case one URL.

 

Most of us do not do this sort of thing.  We build a core technology 

project for a minimum of 5 years in a solid language: C/C++/Java/...  

Or we build shorter projects like web sites using a CMS, mainly server 

side, matching our skills or our client requirements, hopefully both.

 

But when you really have to do something new as Steve and I did 

recently which mixed Google App Engine, Google Data Store, Google 

Maps, team SVN usage, JavaScript, XML/Ajax, Python, lat/lng to/from 

street addresses, HTML/CSS, DOM parsing, Cloud computing, ... you 

start to re-think your options.

 

One huge and humbling surprise: how difficult it is to use two 

different languages (Python and Javascript) in equal measure on a 

single project.  I had prided myself on being able to use a lot of 

different languages .. but I never did so on one project.

 

This is important for the sfComplex, where we are striving to build a 

project space, doing many sophisticated team projects blending 

science, tech, visualization, client/server/peer computing.  This is 

harder than we had thought.

 

Hence the interest in a way to simplify, yet remain sophisticated.  

May fail, due to all the below.  But maybe not.

 

     -- Owen

 

 

On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

 

> Ooh!  My kind of a comment.  Gloomy, pessimistic, dark.

>

> I like it!

>

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Dale Schumacher <[hidden email]

> > wrote:

> Build not your house on sand.

>

> Regrettably, I fear it is far too late for that advice.

>

> As Crockford himself writes, there were a lot of poor implementation

> decisions made in the design of JavaScript.  And there are a lot of

> people who've written code that relies on what he called the "Awful

> Parts" and the "Bad Parts".

>

> JavaScript and its derivatives are certainly important, and increasing

> popular, technologies.  And it's ubiquitous availability has

> definitely led me to use it, for web design, but also for prototyping

> other ideas.  Ultimately, I expect, its design flaws will lead to a

> collapse, forcing us to move on to yet another platform.

>

> Enjoy the ride.

>

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Owen Densmore<[hidden email]> 

> wrote:

> > At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and 

> it's

> > renaissance in the computing world.

> --- lots of excellent information removed. see the original thread for

> details ---

 

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html

 

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Marko Rodriguez]

Hi everyone,

I don't think I've posted on FRIAM in maybe 3+ years. So...I'm having some
stage fright :).

I'd really like to turn some attention towards Linked Process (
http://linkedprocess.org ). Linked Process is a standard and
implementation we are developing to support web-scale distributed
computing. Steve Smith had some nice ways to describe it:

1. Its like SETI@Home, but for anything and for anyone.
2. Its like Remote Procedure Call (RPC), but the client defines the "P".
3. Its like the general-public's compute cloud.

The standard is based on the XMPP/Jabber scheme that people use to instant
message with each other. However, instead of instant messaging with
people, processors dish compute jobs off to each other. The spec is
language agnostic and we are currently (in our implementation) supporting
Java, Ruby, Python, and JavaScript. That is, people can write distributed
Linked Process applications in these languages. Moreover, given the
widespread adoption of XMPP, most other languages have XMPP libraries to
support building a Linked Process API for. The technology is very general
purpose and can serve as a nice substrate for projects requiring
safe/secure distribution of code and data.

The project has been jammin' along this summer and we have really
accomplished alot (more than expected) with much more in store unfolding
over the next few weeks. We are planning on doing a TechTalk this upcoming
Wednesday at the Santa Fe Complex on it and would like people who are
interested in such ideas to join.

Take care,
Marko.

> Cool beans! (not the Java kind)
>
> Here in Italy, everyone is waiting for the Complex to come up with the
> next paradigm for urban data management...
> Santa Fe carries quite a cachet...  I look forward to a simple, elegant
> Occamesque solution that will revolutionize my world of urban and
> environmental management and planning.  The mother of all platforms.  The
> paradigm to end all paradigms.  Urban Data Agents and Pipes...
>
> Meanwhile, I will enjoy the Redentore festival here tonight, celebrating
> the end of the plague of 1575...
> Obviously people remember BAD things much longer than the good stuff...
>
>
> Ciao
>
>
> Fabio
>
> ------------------------------------------
> Fabio Carrera, Ph.D.
> WWW<http://www.wpi.edu/~carrera> |
> Blog<http://venice2point0.blogspot.com/> | Wiki<http://venipedia.org/> |
> Fb<http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=29105207&refame> |
> Tw<http://twitter.com/fabiocarrera> |
> Wh?<http://www.dopplr.com/traveller/FabioCarrera/public>
> US Cell: [phone] | US Off: [phone] (until Jul.9)
> IT  Cell: [phone] | IT  Off: [phone] (Jul.11- Aug. 6)
> Skype: carrerawpi
>
> [in MA<http://www.wpi.edu/~carrera> until July 9, then in
> Venice<http://http/www.venice2point0.org/> until Aug. 6, then back in
> Santa
> Fe<http://sfcomplex.org/adobewiki/index.php?title=WPI:Santa_Fe_Project_Center>
> around Aug. 12...     then
> where?<http://www.dopplr.com/traveller/FabioCarrera/public/planned_trips>]
>
>>>>             V e n i c e   A n n i v e r s a r y   W e b   S i t
>>>> e<http://venice2point0.org/>             <<<
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:25 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> Cc: General topics & issues
> Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [FRIAM] JavaScript ecology
>
> Sweet!
>
> I did fail to describe what motivated the conversation to begin with:
> writing sophisticated client/server/peer applications in team
> programming projects.
>
> Ones you write both the client, server and communication code.  Not
> "pick a CMS and use it".  Something big.  And new.  And who's "Hello
> World" really could span the globe.  And one who's deployment was
> *really* simple .. in this case one URL.
>
> Most of us do not do this sort of thing.  We build a core technology
> project for a minimum of 5 years in a solid language: C/C++/Java/...
> Or we build shorter projects like web sites using a CMS, mainly server
> side, matching our skills or our client requirements, hopefully both.
>
> But when you really have to do something new as Steve and I did
> recently which mixed Google App Engine, Google Data Store, Google
> Maps, team SVN usage, JavaScript, XML/Ajax, Python, lat/lng to/from
> street addresses, HTML/CSS, DOM parsing, Cloud computing, ... you
> start to re-think your options.
>
> One huge and humbling surprise: how difficult it is to use two
> different languages (Python and Javascript) in equal measure on a
> single project.  I had prided myself on being able to use a lot of
> different languages .. but I never did so on one project.
>
> This is important for the sfComplex, where we are striving to build a
> project space, doing many sophisticated team projects blending
> science, tech, visualization, client/server/peer computing.  This is
> harder than we had thought.
>
> Hence the interest in a way to simplify, yet remain sophisticated.
> May fail, due to all the below.  But maybe not.
>
>      -- Owen
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
>
>> Ooh!  My kind of a comment.  Gloomy, pessimistic, dark.
>>
>> I like it!
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Dale Schumacher
>> <[hidden email]
>> > wrote:
>> Build not your house on sand.
>>
>> Regrettably, I fear it is far too late for that advice.
>>
>> As Crockford himself writes, there were a lot of poor implementation
>> decisions made in the design of JavaScript.  And there are a lot of
>> people who've written code that relies on what he called the "Awful
>> Parts" and the "Bad Parts".
>>
>> JavaScript and its derivatives are certainly important, and increasing
>> popular, technologies.  And it's ubiquitous availability has
>> definitely led me to use it, for web design, but also for prototyping
>> other ideas.  Ultimately, I expect, its design flaws will lead to a
>> collapse, forcing us to move on to yet another platform.
>>
>> Enjoy the ride.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Owen Densmore<[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and
>> it's
>> > renaissance in the computing world.
>> --- lots of excellent information removed. see the original thread for
>> details ---
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Steve Smith]

No pressure guys.  None at all..

Cool beans! (not the Java kind)

 

Here in Italy, everyone is waiting for the Complex to come up with the next paradigm for urban data management…

Santa Fe carries quite a cachet…  I look forward to a simple, elegant Occamesque solution that will revolutionize my world of urban and environmental management and planning.  The mother of all platforms.  The paradigm to end all paradigms.  Urban Data Agents and Pipes…

 

Meanwhile, I will enjoy the Redentore festival here tonight, celebrating the end of the plague of 1575… 

Obviously people remember BAD things much longer than the good stuff…

 

Ciao

 

Fabio

 

------------------------------------------

Fabio Carrera, Ph.D.

WWW | Blog | Wiki | Fb | Tw | Wh?

US Cell: [phone] | US Off: [phone] (until Jul.9)

IT  Cell: [phone] | IT  Off: [phone] (Jul.11- Aug. 6)

Skype: carrerawpi

[in MA until July 9, then in Venice until Aug. 6, then back in Santa Fe around Aug. 12...     then where?]

>>>             V e n i c e   A n n i v e r s a r y   W e b   S i t e             <<<

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:25 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: General topics & issues
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [FRIAM] JavaScript ecology

 

Sweet!

 

I did fail to describe what motivated the conversation to begin with: 

writing sophisticated client/server/peer applications in team 

programming projects.

 

Ones you write both the client, server and communication code.  Not 

"pick a CMS and use it".  Something big.  And new.  And who's "Hello 

World" really could span the globe.  And one who's deployment was 

*really* simple .. in this case one URL.

 

Most of us do not do this sort of thing.  We build a core technology 

project for a minimum of 5 years in a solid language: C/C++/Java/...  

Or we build shorter projects like web sites using a CMS, mainly server 

side, matching our skills or our client requirements, hopefully both.

 

But when you really have to do something new as Steve and I did 

recently which mixed Google App Engine, Google Data Store, Google 

Maps, team SVN usage, JavaScript, XML/Ajax, Python, lat/lng to/from 

street addresses, HTML/CSS, DOM parsing, Cloud computing, ... you 

start to re-think your options.

 

One huge and humbling surprise: how difficult it is to use two 

different languages (Python and Javascript) in equal measure on a 

single project.  I had prided myself on being able to use a lot of 

different languages .. but I never did so on one project.

 

This is important for the sfComplex, where we are striving to build a 

project space, doing many sophisticated team projects blending 

science, tech, visualization, client/server/peer computing.  This is 

harder than we had thought.

 

Hence the interest in a way to simplify, yet remain sophisticated.  

May fail, due to all the below.  But maybe not.

 

     -- Owen

 

 

On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

 

> Ooh!  My kind of a comment.  Gloomy, pessimistic, dark.

>

> I like it!

>

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Dale Schumacher <[hidden email]

> > wrote:

> Build not your house on sand.

>

> Regrettably, I fear it is far too late for that advice.

>

> As Crockford himself writes, there were a lot of poor implementation

> decisions made in the design of JavaScript.  And there are a lot of

> people who've written code that relies on what he called the "Awful

> Parts" and the "Bad Parts".

>

> JavaScript and its derivatives are certainly important, and increasing

> popular, technologies.  And it's ubiquitous availability has

> definitely led me to use it, for web design, but also for prototyping

> other ideas.  Ultimately, I expect, its design flaws will lead to a

> collapse, forcing us to move on to yet another platform.

>

> Enjoy the ride.

>

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Owen Densmore[hidden email] 

> wrote:

> > At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and 

> it's

> > renaissance in the computing world.

> --- lots of excellent information removed. see the original thread for

> details ---

 

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html

 

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Patrick Reilly]

Buongiorno Fabio:

I will be in Italy for two and a half weeks celebrating my 25th wedding anniversary with my the love of my life.  Could Diane and I buy you a glass of wine during our travels?

Our current plans are to land in Rome on July 25th and wander by train generally towards Venice.

BTW, my mobile phone number is 1(831) 332 7127.

---   Pat

On Jul 18, 2009, at 9:36 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

No pressure guys.  None at all..

Cool beans! (not the Java kind)

 

Here in Italy, everyone is waiting for the Complex to come up with the next paradigm for urban data management…

Santa Fe carries quite a cachet…  I look forward to a simple, elegant Occamesque solution that will revolutionize my world of urban and environmental management and planning.  The mother of all platforms.  The paradigm to end all paradigms.  Urban Data Agents and Pipes…

 

Meanwhile, I will enjoy the Redentore festival here tonight, celebrating the end of the plague of 1575… 

Obviously people remember BAD things much longer than the good stuff…

 

Ciao

 

Fabio

 

------------------------------------------

Fabio Carrera, Ph.D.

WWW | Blog | Wiki | Fb | Tw | Wh?

US Cell: [phone] | US Off: [phone] (until Jul.9)

IT  Cell: [phone] | IT  Off: [phone] (Jul.11- Aug. 6)

Skype: carrerawpi

[in MA until July 9, then in Venice until Aug. 6, then back in Santa Fe around Aug. 12...     then where?]

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-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:25 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: General topics & issues
Subject: [sfx: Discuss] Re: [FRIAM] JavaScript ecology

 

Sweet!

 

I did fail to describe what motivated the conversation to begin with: 

writing sophisticated client/server/peer applications in team 

programming projects.

 

Ones you write both the client, server and communication code.  Not 

"pick a CMS and use it".  Something big.  And new.  And who's "Hello 

World" really could span the globe.  And one who's deployment was 

*really* simple .. in this case one URL.

 

Most of us do not do this sort of thing.  We build a core technology 

project for a minimum of 5 years in a solid language: C/C++/Java/...  

Or we build shorter projects like web sites using a CMS, mainly server 

side, matching our skills or our client requirements, hopefully both.

 

But when you really have to do something new as Steve and I did 

recently which mixed Google App Engine, Google Data Store, Google 

Maps, team SVN usage, JavaScript, XML/Ajax, Python, lat/lng to/from 

street addresses, HTML/CSS, DOM parsing, Cloud computing, ... you 

start to re-think your options.

 

One huge and humbling surprise: how difficult it is to use two 

different languages (Python and Javascript) in equal measure on a 

single project.  I had prided myself on being able to use a lot of 

different languages .. but I never did so on one project.

 

This is important for the sfComplex, where we are striving to build a 

project space, doing many sophisticated team projects blending 

science, tech, visualization, client/server/peer computing.  This is 

harder than we had thought.

 

Hence the interest in a way to simplify, yet remain sophisticated.  

May fail, due to all the below.  But maybe not.

 

     -- Owen

 

 

On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

 

> Ooh!  My kind of a comment.  Gloomy, pessimistic, dark.

>

> I like it!

>

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Dale Schumacher <[hidden email]

> > wrote:

> Build not your house on sand.

>

> Regrettably, I fear it is far too late for that advice.

>

> As Crockford himself writes, there were a lot of poor implementation

> decisions made in the design of JavaScript.  And there are a lot of

> people who've written code that relies on what he called the "Awful

> Parts" and the "Bad Parts".

>

> JavaScript and its derivatives are certainly important, and increasing

> popular, technologies.  And it's ubiquitous availability has

> definitely led me to use it, for web design, but also for prototyping

> other ideas.  Ultimately, I expect, its design flaws will lead to a

> collapse, forcing us to move on to yet another platform.

>

> Enjoy the ride.

>

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Owen Densmore[hidden email] 

> wrote:

> > At Friam today we discussed the latest buzz about javascript and 

> it's

> > renaissance in the computing world.

> --- lots of excellent information removed. see the original thread for

> details ---

 

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

[hidden email]

http://lists.sfcomplex.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

http://www.nabble.com/sfComplex-Discuss-f33403.html

 

 

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Owen Densmore]

Just to help folks scratching their heads on the discussion, here is a  
good list of JavaScript outside of the browser.
   JavaScript (Uses_outside_web_pages) - Wikipedia
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javascript#Uses_outside_web_pages

     -- Owen



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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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[Roger Critchlow-2]

Here's the visual version, http://tools.mozilla.com/, if your browser supports canvas.

-- rec --


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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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[Jochen Fromm-4]

Today I stumbled upon this link from John Resig,
the creator and lead developer of jQuery:
http://ejohn.org/blog/web-workers/

-J.


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Owen Densmore]

Oh Gawd.  Just when I think our (Redfish, sfX, wedtech) recent  
discoveries about the coolness, and hopefully ubiquitousness of  
JavaScript promised a world w/o PHP, I get a homework assignment (Web  
Team @ sfX) that requires PHP!

Groan! But then I found out, once again, that PHP had features I  
hadn't known about.  Closures! Better objects & classes than I had  
known about. And believe or not, a desktop command line interface .. a  
shell!
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php

For the non-programmers amongst us, PHP is to web servers as JS is to  
the browser.

Now, I really, really DO want to have the same language in both client  
and server .. a peer architecture, and I prefer JS (it's far more  
stable and standard too), but PHP ain't as bad as I had thought.

     -- Owen


On Jul 20, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> Just to help folks scratching their heads on the discussion, here is  
> a good list of JavaScript outside of the browser.
>  JavaScript (Uses_outside_web_pages) - Wikipedia
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javascript#Uses_outside_web_pages
>
>    -- Owen


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org