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Hywel's anti-representationalism

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jon zingale
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Hywel's anti-representationalism

jon zingale
From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



--
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thompnickson2
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

thompnickson2
Such are the joys of dualism!

 n

Nick Thompson
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 5:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



--
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Frank Wimberly-2
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

Frank Wimberly-2
Slight clarification.  Hywel said, "The number one does not exist."  I think he was talking about measurement error and that no physical object is exactly one meter long.  That's when I asked him how many mothers he had.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:59 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Such are the joys of dualism!

 n

Nick Thompson
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 5:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



--
Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

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Marcus G. Daniels
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

Marcus G. Daniels

Spin ½ objects are spin up or down, no?  What is going on with the length of an object below the +/- 0.1 nm absolute precision of a meter?

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 6:03 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

 

Slight clarification.  Hywel said, "The number one does not exist."  I think he was talking about measurement error and that no physical object is exactly one meter long.  That's when I asked him how many mothers he had.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:59 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Such are the joys of dualism!

 n

Nick Thompson
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 5:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



--
Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

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Frank Wimberly-2
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

Frank Wimberly-2
Too bad you can't ask Hywel.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 8:45 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Spin ½ objects are spin up or down, no?  What is going on with the length of an object below the +/- 0.1 nm absolute precision of a meter?

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 6:03 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

 

Slight clarification.  Hywel said, "The number one does not exist."  I think he was talking about measurement error and that no physical object is exactly one meter long.  That's when I asked him how many mothers he had.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:59 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Such are the joys of dualism!

 n

Nick Thompson
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 5:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



--
Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

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thompnickson2
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

thompnickson2

Aw, heck!  Let’s do a séance  “Hywel, if you can hear us, make the screen blink three times.”

 

 

Nick Thompson

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 8:50 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

 

Too bad you can't ask Hywel.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 8:45 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Spin ½ objects are spin up or down, no?  What is going on with the length of an object below the +/- 0.1 nm absolute precision of a meter?

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 6:03 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

 

Slight clarification.  Hywel said, "The number one does not exist."  I think he was talking about measurement error and that no physical object is exactly one meter long.  That's when I asked him how many mothers he had.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:59 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Such are the joys of dualism!

 n

Nick Thompson
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 5:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



--
Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
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Frank Wimberly-2
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

Frank Wimberly-2
Seance--next best thing.  Here is an essay Hywel sent me.  Good writer.


I tried to post this years ago but it was too large.  The link should work.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 9:23 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Aw, heck!  Let’s do a séance  “Hywel, if you can hear us, make the screen blink three times.”

 

 

Nick Thompson

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 8:50 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

 

Too bad you can't ask Hywel.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 8:45 PM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Spin ½ objects are spin up or down, no?  What is going on with the length of an object below the +/- 0.1 nm absolute precision of a meter?

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 6:03 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

 

Slight clarification.  Hywel said, "The number one does not exist."  I think he was talking about measurement error and that no physical object is exactly one meter long.  That's when I asked him how many mothers he had.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 5:59 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Such are the joys of dualism!

 n

Nick Thompson
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of jon zingale
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 5:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [FRIAM] Hywel's anti-representationalism

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



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jon zingale
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

jon zingale
Rad. I am listening to it now.



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Barry MacKichan
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

Barry MacKichan
In reply to this post by jon zingale

That is one of the nicest obituaries I’ve seen.

—Barry

On 24 Mar 2021, at 19:24, jon zingale wrote:

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



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Frank Wimberly-2
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Re: Hywel's anti-representationalism

Frank Wimberly-2
Agreed.  Thanks, Jon.

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Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 8:07 AM Barry MacKichan <[hidden email]> wrote:

That is one of the nicest obituaries I’ve seen.

—Barry

On 24 Mar 2021, at 19:24, jon zingale wrote:

From time to time, I find myself reflecting on the wisdom of my old friend
Hywel, and this time in particular, on the anti-representational nature of
his epistemology. Hywel was well known for his aphorisms and most famously
the declaration that:

"Mathematics is fine, but it is better to know what you are doing".

Occasionally, I would hear this as a staunch refutation of math envy. Upon
more gracious reflection it occurs to me that there is much to be gained
from substituting, in the aphorism, "Mathematics" for "Representation".
Perhaps, even better would be the declaration that:

"Representation is fine, but it is better to know directly".

Hywel would often decry the existence of numbers, to which Frank would
playfully reply, "Hywel, how many mothers do you have"? Hywel's response was
a tacit smile, his wisdom would need to wait for a more amenable moment.

Hywel's thought was radically empirical. The *world* itself was the thing to
know and everything else an, often convenient, illusion. To proceed with the
discussion, granting mothers, was to already concede a denotational
worldview that was not his own.

It is perhaps more insightful to reflect on his views on non-units. Hywelian
epistemology admits no two things the *same*. To discuss neutrinos with him,
the area of his expertise, was to discuss the experiments themselves, the
blips of particle detectors, and the tubs of baby oil. Relations always
between direct perceptions. To ask him about the exchangeability of protons
was to have a discussion about particle decay. All symmetries, illusory.

While representationalists find themselves in paradox pondering the source,
whence objects come? Hywel's epistemology finds no such concern and
continues to find purchase out there among the stars.



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