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Hope or Despair

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Jochen Fromm-5

Hope or Despair

Many scientists and journalists feel desperate now that Mr. T-Rump will rule the world, especially climate scientists like Eric Holthaus

https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/817503888500633600

What are we going to do, hope or despair, resist or surrender? I'm not sure if we are heading towards climate hell, criminal abyss or nuclear apocalypse, or if America is just turning into Trumpistan...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/america-becomes-a-stan.amp.html

Do you remember this odd meeting where Trump met the bosses of the big IT-companies? None of them looked happy, but they all came. It felt like Sauron is going to meet the Ring-wraiths. Each of the Ringwraiths already owns a ring of power. Facebook, Google, Amazon, and Apple have enormous power, some say a single one of them is worth more than all corporations at the Russian stockmarkets together. In Tolkien's epic story Sauron is beaten by the Hobbit Frodo who destroys the ring of power in the mountain of doom. Frodo seems to stand for the ordinary Joe, i.e. the ordinary people, who eventually give up the desire for power. Now if everyone would give up using Twitter and Facebook, Mr. T-Rump who lose his social media power there immediately, he would become bored of politics and quit. Too good to be true.

Likewise if the ordinary Joe would give up his desire to become great, rich and famous, then Trump wouldn't have been elected in the first place. Isn't it remarkable how Tolkien has observed that totalitarian dictatorships rest on the shoulders of the ordinary people? In Russia it is similar, the dictatorship here rests on the few shoulders of the small people, who depend on the welfare state that feeds them and tells them lies.

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Hope or Despair

Jochen writes:

"Many scientists and journalists feel desperate now that Mr. T-Rump will rule the world, especially climate scientists like Eric Holthaus"

Move along, nothing to see here.. and certainly no conflicts of interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/rex-tillersons-company-exxon-has-billions-at-stake-over-russia-sanctions.html

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 7:18:13 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

Many scientists and journalists feel desperate now that Mr. T-Rump will rule the world, especially climate scientists like Eric Holthaus

https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/817503888500633600

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/america-becomes-a-stan.amp.html

-Jochen

Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

Yes, it is one of the things Eric complains about:

"But what the hell am I supposed to do? Write another blog post? Our secretary of state is the fucking Exxon CEO."

https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/817505151720169472

Nothing to see here. Please disperse...

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]>

Date: 1/7/17 16:43 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/rex-tillersons-company-exxon-has-billions-at-stake-over-russia-sanctions.html

Many scientists and journalists feel desperate now that Mr. T-Rump will rule the world, especially climate scientists like Eric Holthaus

https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/817503888500633600

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/america-becomes-a-stan.amp.html

-Jochen

Owen Densmore

Re: Hope or Despair

Administrator

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

Owen Densmore

Re: Hope or Despair

Administrator

I realized too late that my reference to the number of Damns one has may not have been clear. From an earlier post:

BTW: I realize I've posted this in the past, and my version of it uses s/fuck/damn/. But I've only got a limited number of Damn's to give, and the fewer, the stronger.
https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck

So I just don't give a Damn about the president, no matter who. I have too few to give. My first Damn is for Love & Compassion, kinda weak I realize but then I think I can stop war by being peaceful myself. It all starts at home.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Owen Densmore

Owen writes:

"Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well."

For certain definitions of "we". In that spirit, let's return to the chemotherapy example, or consider fluctuations in deer population as a function of hunting policy, or life in Allepo. The respective populations won't get completely annihilated, but they are big fluctuations.

Of course we as a population will "survive pretty well". That's a goal for deep sea bacterial, not wealthy democracies. As a population we will survive even if everyone carries an AK-47 and uses it every time their feelings get hurt.

Marcus

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 10:31:02 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

-- Owen

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Owen Densmore

Owen writes:

"It all starts at home."

That certainly is a point of view. Here's another:

https://www.amazon.com/Against-Empathy-Case-Rational-Compassion/dp/0062339338

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 11:06:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

I realized too late that my reference to the number of Damns one has may not have been clear. From an earlier post:

BTW: I realize I've posted this in the past, and my version of it uses s/fuck/damn/. But I've only got a limited number of Damn's to give, and the fewer, the stronger.

https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck

So I just don't give a Damn about the president, no matter who. I have too few to give. My first Damn is for Love & Compassion, kinda weak I realize but then I think I can stop war by being peaceful myself. It all starts at home.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

Owen Densmore

Re: Hope or Despair

Administrator

BTW: Here's Bremmer's view of the threats ahead.

http://time.com/4620424/ian-bremmer-risk-report-top-10-risks/

It does help to understand his Three Americas

Ian is famous for his "three choices" for US foreign policy:
1 - Indispensable America
2 - Moneyball America
3 - Independent America

.. Bremmer apparently believes Trump is a mix of 2 & 3, and definitely not 1.

-- Owen

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen writes:

"It all starts at home."

That certainly is a point of view. Here's another:

https://www.amazon.com/Against-Empathy-Case-Rational-Compassion/dp/0062339338

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 11:06:00 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

I realized too late that my reference to the number of Damns one has may not have been clear. From an earlier post:

BTW: I realize I've posted this in the past, and my version of it uses s/fuck/damn/. But I've only got a limited number of Damn's to give, and the fewer, the stronger.

https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck

So I just don't give a Damn about the president, no matter who. I have too few to give. My first Damn is for Love & Compassion, kinda weak I realize but then I think I can stop war by being peaceful myself. It all starts at home.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

John Dobson

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

My son who works for Google explained why the tech CEOs met with Trump. The general rule out there is that you always "take the meeting." Taking the meeting in no way obligates you to do anything as a result of the meeting, but it does give you more information about the topics discussed at the meeting. In his view, this was a smart thing to do for the techies, but it is hardly surprising that they were not overly gruntled about the conclave. So your comment about them resembling Ring-wraiths is spot on. But it certainly does not mean that the meeting represented any sort of endorsement of the Donald.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Many scientists and journalists feel desperate now that Mr. T-Rump will rule the world, especially climate scientists like Eric Holthaus
https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/817503888500633600

What are we going to do, hope or despair, resist or surrender? I'm not sure if we are heading towards climate hell, criminal abyss or nuclear apocalypse, or if America is just turning into Trumpistan...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/america-becomes-a-stan.amp.html

Do you remember this odd meeting where Trump met the bosses of the big IT-companies? None of them looked happy, but they all came. It felt like Sauron is going to meet the Ring-wraiths. Each of the Ringwraiths already owns a ring of power. Facebook, Google, Amazon, and Apple have enormous power, some say a single one of them is worth more than all corporations at the Russian stockmarkets together. In Tolkien's epic story Sauron is beaten by the Hobbit Frodo who destroys the ring of power in the mountain of doom. Frodo seems to stand for the ordinary Joe, i.e. the ordinary people, who eventually give up the desire for power. Now if everyone would give up using Twitter and Facebook, Mr. T-Rump who lose his social media power there immediately, he would become bored of politics and quit. Too good to be true.

Likewise if the ordinary Joe would give up his desire to become great, rich and famous, then Trump wouldn't have been elected in the first place. Isn't it remarkable how Tolkien has observed that totalitarian dictatorships rest on the shoulders of the ordinary people? In Russia it is similar, the dictatorship here rests on the few shoulders of the small people, who depend on the welfare state that feeds them and tells them lies.

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Jochen Fromm-5

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Jochen Fromm-5

Yes, I am not criticizing the CEOs, I just wonder what the next four years will bring, Owen mentioned Brenners "three choices" for the US

1 - Indispensable America
2 - Moneyball America
3 - Independent America

Interesting from a political perspective. From a complex systems viewpoint it is also interesting if one of the oldest democracies of the world finally slides into some kind of *-ism (fascism, cronyism, totalitarianism), how it occurs, and if we can prevent it somehow.

In their attenpt for perfection the Germans have experienced all this already before. Hitler's movement was based on the outrage of the common people, on the desire of the "ordinary Joe" to be great again. There we are, Godwin's law strikes again. Many ordinary people were indeed happy to find new jobs through the Nazi party. Adolf Eichmann and Heinrich Himmler were among them, both had low-paying jobs or no jobs at all before they got a job in the Nazi party.

Currently for many members of the Republican party the hunger for power and government positions seems to be greater than their conscience and their moral integrity. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel if the Republicans eventually give up their desire for power. If they can impeach Bill Clinton, maybe they can do it with Trump do. It shouldn't be difficult to find reasons.

There is hope as long as democratic institutions continue to work. Where the alarm bells should ring and what must be avoided is:

- the creation of a new party or movement at the far right focussed solely on the president, protected by some kind of homeland security organization

- a complete seizure of power which leads to a dictatorship, for instance after a terrible terror attack

- concentration camps of any kind for political opponents, illegal immigrants, Muslims or whoever the new president declares as the new enemy

- any kind of creation of a registry or database or list of people based on immigration status or religion

It is nice to see that the big IT companies signed a pledge for the last point already http://neveragain.tech

-J.

-------- Original message --------

From: John Dobson <[hidden email]>

Date: 1/7/17 19:41 (GMT+01:00)

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 7:18 AM, Jochen Fromm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Many scientists and journalists feel desperate now that Mr. T-Rump will rule the world, especially climate scientists like Eric Holthaus
https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/817503888500633600

What are we going to do, hope or despair, resist or surrender? I'm not sure if we are heading towards climate hell, criminal abyss or nuclear apocalypse, or if America is just turning into Trumpistan...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/opinion/america-becomes-a-stan.amp.html

Do you remember this odd meeting where Trump met the bosses of the big IT-companies? None of them looked happy, but they all came. It felt like Sauron is going to meet the Ring-wraiths. Each of the Ringwraiths already owns a ring of power. Facebook, Google, Amazon, and Apple have enormous power, some say a single one of them is worth more than all corporations at the Russian stockmarkets together. In Tolkien's epic story Sauron is beaten by the Hobbit Frodo who destroys the ring of power in the mountain of doom. Frodo seems to stand for the ordinary Joe, i.e. the ordinary people, who eventually give up the desire for power. Now if everyone would give up using Twitter and Facebook, Mr. T-Rump who lose his social media power there immediately, he would become bored of politics and quit. Too good to be true.

Likewise if the ordinary Joe would give up his desire to become great, rich and famous, then Trump wouldn't have been elected in the first place. Isn't it remarkable how Tolkien has observed that totalitarian dictatorships rest on the shoulders of the ordinary people? In Russia it is similar, the dictatorship here rests on the few shoulders of the small people, who depend on the welfare state that feeds them and tells them lies.

-Jochen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Owen Densmore

It starts at home, Owen, but if it only stays at home it isn't enough.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I realized too late that my reference to the number of Damns one has may not have been clear. From an earlier post:

BTW: I realize I've posted this in the past, and my version of it uses s/fuck/damn/. But I've only got a limited number of Damn's to give, and the fewer, the stronger.
https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck

So I just don't give a Damn about the president, no matter who. I have too few to give. My first Damn is for Love & Compassion, kinda weak I realize but then I think I can stop war by being peaceful myself. It all starts at home.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

Merle Lefkoff-2

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Owen Densmore

There's no need for a he/she, Owen. The term has no relevance when talking about the presidency.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

Nick Thompson

Re: Hope or Despair

Owen:

cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

“We” did?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 8:59 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

There's no need for a he/she, Owen. The term has no relevance when talking about the presidency.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: (303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

Roger Critchlow-2

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Merle Lefkoff-2

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/08/blaming-fake-news-not-the-answer-democracy-crisis

-- rec --

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:58 PM, Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

There's no need for a he/she, Owen. The term has no relevance when talking about the presidency.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

--
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: <a href="tel:(303)%20859-5609" value="+13038595609" target="_blank">(303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Owen Densmore

Re: Hope or Despair

Administrator

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/08/blaming-fake-news-not-the-answer-democracy-crisis

-- rec --

Amen!

Democracy may or may not be drowning in fake news, but it’s definitely drowning in elite hypocrisy.

hope we're able to escape that ourselves. I'm concerned that we too are "smug liberals". I hope I can invite my garbage collector to my next party as Pope Francis did.

-- Owen

Nick Thompson

Re: Hope or Despair

And who, exactly, is this “elite” of whom we speak with such assurance and contempt?

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 9:38 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/08/blaming-fake-news-not-the-answer-democracy-crisis

-- rec --

Amen!

Democracy may or may not be drowning in fake news, but it’s definitely drowning in elite hypocrisy.

hope we're able to escape that ourselves. I'm concerned that we too are "smug liberals". I hope I can invite my garbage collector to my next party as Pope Francis did.

-- Owen

Owen Densmore

Re: Hope or Despair

Administrator

All those who were outside the set of those hurt by their decisions.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

O

And who, exactly, is this “elite” of whom we speak with such assurance and contempt?

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 9:38 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/08/blaming-fake-news-not-the-answer-democracy-crisis

-- rec --

Amen!

Democracy may or may not be drowning in fake news, but it’s definitely drowning in elite hypocrisy.

I
hope we're able to escape that ourselves. I'm concerned that we too are "smug liberals". I hope I can invite my garbage collector to my next party as Pope Francis did.

-- Owen

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Hope or Despair

Which decisions, exactly?

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 10:09 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

All those who were outside the set of those hurt by their decisions.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

O

And who, exactly, is this “elite” of whom we speak with such assurance and contempt?

N

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 9:38 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/08/blaming-fake-news-not-the-answer-democracy-crisis

-- rec --

Amen!

Democracy may or may not be drowning in fake news, but it’s definitely drowning in elite hypocrisy.

I

hope we're able to escape that ourselves. I'm concerned that we too are "smug liberals". I hope I can invite my garbage collector to my next party as Pope Francis did.

-- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Nick Thompson

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Owen Densmore

Hey, Owen,

When I was 32 or so, I ran for the post of Planning Board Chair for the Town of New Braintree. I was young and very idealistic about participatory democracy, and so I set as my goal to visit every house in Town to talk about the future of the Town, which was just small enough that that goal was plausible. Like every small New England town, New Braintree it was riven with factionalism and anger. However, my hosts agreed upon one thing for sure: “they” were responsible for all that was wrong with the Town. Thing was, I never found out who “they” was. I never even found a “We.” Political unity existed only in the mind of those who saw themselves the victims of it.

It was about that year that the this cartoon appeared.

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

All those who were outside the set of those hurt by their decisions.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

O

And who, exactly, is this “elite” of whom we speak with such assurance and contempt?

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 9:38 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/08/blaming-fake-news-not-the-answer-democracy-crisis

-- rec --

Amen!

Democracy may or may not be drowning in fake news, but it’s definitely drowning in elite hypocrisy.

I
hope we're able to escape that ourselves. I'm concerned that we too are "smug liberals". I hope I can invite my garbage collector to my next party as Pope Francis did.

-- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Hope or Despair

In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2

“The only solution to the problem of fake news that neither misdiagnoses the problem nor overpowers the elites is to completely rethink the fundamentals of digital capitalism. We need to make online advertising – and its destructive click-and-share drive – less central to how we live, work and communicate.”

Well, advertising existed before digital advertising. Investigative reporting has been and is an important profession. It takes time, effort, and expertise to turn over rocks and figure out what the important questions are, and how to answer them. That digital capitalism has a particular technical mechanism that is prone to proliferating nonsense is a problem that can be fixed with a combination of legislation/regulation and technology. That is no more elitist (or authoritarian) to insist that food producers publish standard nutritional properties. Yes, there are more and less credible sources for reporting, and in principle, the web makes this easier to communicate to readers, not harder. We have cryptographic ways to (reasonably) prove that entities are who they say they are, and ways to prove that source documents have not be tainted. We even have very sophisticated open source technology for parsing natural language into data structures and for reasoning based on these data structures.

I would not say that online advertising is becoming more conspicuous in my work or personal use of computing technology. I don’t use Facebook at all, and Twitter is mainly interesting as a way to gain insight about large scale social networks. I don’t communicate with Twitter. I don’t use Instagram. I do use Google and a few other search engines, and I don’t find it hard to discriminate between ads and content. I consume advertisements from credible news outlets like I would have 30 years ago. All of the modeling these companies do of me can be defeated just by using Tor, if I should choose to be so paranoid. Actually I think I get less advertising than I used to because I now just pay for Hulu, Netflix and XM radio instead of using broadcast television and radio.

If I am annoyed by one thing, it is that there are so many morons on the Internet that now don’t have to be exposed to criticism. Usenet was different in this respect. Let us bring back the good old days of Usenet flame wars. When stubborn ignorance could get you humiliated in public and without mercy, over and over.

Marcus

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 9:11 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Hope or Despair

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/08/blaming-fake-news-not-the-answer-democracy-crisis

-- rec --

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:58 PM, Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

There's no need for a he/she, Owen. The term has no relevance when talking about the presidency.

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

Clearly you need to attend to Kissinger and Bremmer.

In terms of Russia, Kissinger's analysis of the Nation State suggests we have been far too shallow. There are very good reasons for the Russian people to feel exposed by the west's encroachment, and why they approve of Putin to the degree they do.

Trump is no threat. I personally have not given up even one of my 25 Damns over him. Any threatened Rape and Pillage will likely just cause another economic implosion which we survived pretty well.

I am curious, however, which of Bremmers 3 Americas Trump tends to, or what blend of the three. And what Trump thinks of Kissinger's recent defense of the nation state .. I know Kissinger is meeting with Trump.

Presidential politics are unique. Presidential historians agree that, whatever a president has promised, he/she is always formed by unexpected, exogenous events. At a guess, they will be foreign affairs in Trump's case. I hope he takes the MoneyBall stance.

-- Owen

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
[hidden email]
mobile: <a href="tel:(303)%20859-5609" target="_blank">(303) 859-5609
skype: merle.lelfkoff2

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove