Friam

Greek Crisis & Philosophy

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Robert J. Cordingley

Greek Crisis & Philosophy

As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C

-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)

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Frank Wimberly-2

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

Quite funny.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Phone
(505) 670-9918

On Jul 5, 2015 5:06 PM, "Robert J. Cordingley" <[hidden email]> wrote:

As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
<a href="tel:281-989-6272" value="+12819896272" target="_blank">281-989-6272 (cell)
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Gary Schiltz-4

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Robert J. Cordingley

It doesn't work in the United States because we are waiting for the soccer match to finish, and wondering why the football game never starts.

On Sunday, July 5, 2015, Robert J. Cordingley <[hidden email]> wrote:

As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Robert J. Cordingley

When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

--

Cirrillian Web Development

Santa Fe, NM

http://cirrillian.com

281-989-6272 (cell)

Alfredo Covaleda Vélez

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>:

I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".

Where I have seen this before?

Just fill the blank: The __________ now faces "state's rights".

-- Owen
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
<a href="tel:281-989-6272" value="+12819896272" target="_blank">281-989-6272 (cell)
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente
+57 3154531383

Gary Schiltz-4

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

Ain’t got no idear, Alfred'a. Could’a been over in that there country
called ‘Merika. Maybe next they will print their own money in
Mississippi and Alabama. They could even print a confederate flag on
it.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Alfredo Covaleda Vélez
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> 2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".
>
>
>
> Where I have seen this before?
>
> Just fill the blank: The __________ now faces "state's rights".
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> -- Owen
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the
>>> red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by
>>> Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to
>>> Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might
>>> imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One
>>> can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky.
>>> I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own
>>> currency. Or maybe they would!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J.
>>> Cordingley
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>>> Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and
>>> the role of philosophy...
>>>
>>> 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article
>>> that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in
>>> Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube)
>>> between Greece and Germany. Is it true?
>>>
>>> 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but
>>> never in the US?
>>>
>>> Robert C
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Cirrillian Web Development
>>>
>>> Santa Fe, NM
>>>
>>> http://cirrillian.com
>>>
>>> 281-989-6272 (cell)
>>>
>>>
>>> ============================================================
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ============================================================
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente
> +57 3154531383
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Nick Thompson

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 12:46 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".

-- Owen

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
<a href="tel:281-989-6272" target="_blank">281-989-6272 (cell)
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Parks, Raymond

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

Nick,

Owen's post actually made me think of the beginnings of the War Between the States rather than the aftermath - someone would have to win for there to be an aftermath.

The EU is more like the original thirteen colonies' Articles of Confederation, so I would expect that states' rights would not be a break-apart or civil war issue. If it does become an issue, there may be political pressure to force retention of the rebellious states (and I expect that other states on the path of Greece will join them). The big difference would be that an EU Civil War would not be an industrial war like the American Civil War - it would be a war among the peoples, primarily in cyberspace, and would be leveraged by Russia to increase their influence in the former Warsaw Pact as well as Greece. Normally, I would expect Turkey to take advantage of the weakness of their traditional enemy, but Turkey itself is having a low-key civil war between the Islamists and the Ataturk-style secularists.

Ray Parks
Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
V: 505-844-4024 M: 505-238-9359 P: 505-951-6084
NIPR: [hidden email]
SIPR: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)
JWICS: [hidden email] (send NIPR reminder)

On Jul 6, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:

O

Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.

N

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 12:46 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".

-- Owen

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:

When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C

--

Cirrillian Web Development

Santa Fe, NM

http://cirrillian.com

<a href="tel:281-989-6272" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">281-989-6272 (cell)

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Nick Thompson

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Alfredo Covaleda Vélez

To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces "state's rights". Means. Can somebody explain?

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda Vélez
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>:

I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".

Where I have seen this before?

Just fill the blank: The __________ now faces "state's rights".

-- Owen
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
<a href="tel:281-989-6272" target="_blank">281-989-6272 (cell)
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente
+57 3154531383

Gary Schiltz-4

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

The term “states' rights” refers to the fervent belief, especially among conservatives in the USA, that US states are granted by the US Constitution a large amount of autonomy from the US federal government. A corrolary to this is that the US federal government should have very limited powers, and that the majority of power is vested in the individual states. This type of conservatism has a large hold over the American South, thus my earlier tongue-in-cheek message about Mississippi and Alabama printing their own money with confederate flags on them. I have assumed that whoever started this thread was drawing a parallel between the (states as part of the USA) and (Greece as part of the European Union). Greece has basically told the EU to go screw itself, as it can’t make its loan repayments on time.

Come on Nick, I know this stuff and I live in a South American country. Y’all need to get out more, maybe go to a square dance or do a little cow tipping. JUST KIDDING

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces "state's rights". Means. Can somebody explain?

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda Vélez
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>:
I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".

Where I have seen this before?

Just fill the blank: The __________ now faces "state's rights".
-- Owen
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
<a href="tel:281-989-6272" target="_blank">281-989-6272 (cell)
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
--
Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente
<a href="tel:%2B57%203154531383" value="+573154531383" target="_blank">+57 3154531383
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

“Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.”

Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus

Nick Thompson

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4

Gary,

Yes. Sorry. I did know all of that. I just couldn’t make the metaphor work. I suppose a parallel could exist in the fact that most of the states that would wish to secede from our union are in fact heavily bankrolled by it. I am probably working too hard at this. I take metaphors very seriously.

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Schiltz
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 10:44 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

Come on Nick, I know this stuff and I live in a South American country. Y’all need to get out more, maybe go to a square dance or do a little cow tipping. JUST KIDDING

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces "state's rights". Means. Can somebody explain?

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda Vélez
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>:
I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".

Where I have seen this before?

Just fill the blank: The __________ now faces "state's rights".
-- Owen
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
-- 
Cirrillian Web Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
<a href="tel:281-989-6272" target="_blank">281-989-6272 (cell)
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
--
Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente
<a href="tel:%2B57%203154531383" target="_blank">+57 3154531383
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Nick Thompson

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels

Marcus,

Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week. Am I missing something? I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. etc. I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left parties. Rioting, and bloodshed? Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you know that I don’t know?

Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan.

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus

David Eric Smith

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4

Hi All,

The argument that the relation of Greece, Spain, and Italy, and to some extent France, to Germany and Holland within the EU is analogous to that of the southern-agrarian states to the northern-industrial states in the US since the revolutionary war is one that I remember first seeing by Paul Krugman long ago, I think in the book of lectures "Geography and Trade".

http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Trade-Gaston-Eyskens-Lectures/dp/0262610868/ref=la_B000APS32M_1_33?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436270724&sr=1-33&refinements=p_82%3AB000APS32M

The initial form of the argument, if I remember correctly, had more to do with development economics, production of real goods, and market power and ability to dictate the terms of trade. Krugman argued that if the US South had not been at a disadvantage to the US North, they would have instead been at a disadvantage to England (had the secession succeeded), and no better off or really even much different than they wound up after the secession failed. There are still brief snippets of this view that come up in Krugman's NYT column, but the modern versions that I hear from him have much more to do with the specifics of monetary mechanisms such as deliberate currency devaluation to keep balances of payments within manageable levels.

I would not be able to say that Krugman's position on this today is the same as it was coming into the 1990s. Nor do I have enough of a sense of macroeconomics to have an opinion of my own whether he is right. But a more systematic layout of the argument than brief columns and emails is something I have found helpful. This was the book that first got me reading Krugman, when a physics-professor friend recommended it to me as one of the few economics sources for the layman that he thought he could understand.

Eric

On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

The term “states' rights” refers to the fervent belief, especially among conservatives in the USA, that US states are granted by the US Constitution a large amount of autonomy from the US federal government. A corrolary to this is that the US federal government should have very limited powers, and that the majority of power is vested in the individual states. This type of conservatism has a large hold over the American South, thus my earlier tongue-in-cheek message about Mississippi and Alabama printing their own money with confederate flags on them. I have assumed that whoever started this thread was drawing a parallel between the (states as part of the USA) and (Greece as part of the European Union). Greece has basically told the EU to go screw itself, as it can’t make its loan repayments on time.

Come on Nick, I know this stuff and I live in a South American country. Y’all need to get out more, maybe go to a square dance or do a little cow tipping. JUST KIDDING
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces "state's rights". Means. Can somebody explain?

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda Vélez
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore <[hidden email]>:
I love the No vote. The EU now faces "state's rights".

Where I have seen this before?

Just fill the blank: The __________ now faces "state's rights".
-- Owen
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue. One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy
As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy...

1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true?

2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US?

Robert C
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Pamela McCorduck

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Nick Thompson

Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with exactly the kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only be had on the black market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was scarce; labor was mostly women moving bricks from bombed buildings by hand (die Trummelfrauen). Then came the Marshall Plan. But Thomas Piketty has complained (to one of the major German newspapers yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was clear the country could never pay it off—only then came the Wirtschaftswunder, the Economic Miracle.

Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Marcus,

Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week. Am I missing something? I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. etc. I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left parties. Rioting, and bloodshed? Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you know that I don’t know?

Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan.

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

“Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.”

Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus

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Marcus G. Daniels

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

If Greece is unmoored from the Eurozone, there’s still NATO. The sharp end of the stick on that isn’t Germany.

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:13 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Marcus,

Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan.

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus

glen ep ropella

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck

On 07/07/2015 09:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:
> Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket...

Greece Can Join BRICS as a Growing Economy - Official
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150707/1024309291.html

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Robert J. Cordingley

Re: Greek Crisis & Philosophy

In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck

It used to bug my British parents that Germany's factories got rebuilt out of the Marshall Plan deal while Britain's, that were also heavily bombed, didn't. Think of the impact that must have had on the economic competitiveness of the two countries for a long time. However, as a means to avoid any repeat of the WWI reparations disaster (ie the rise of the Third Reich) it probably was a good idea at the time. I'm with Paul Krugman.

I wonder if Tsipiras would ever play a Putin card. Greece is a member of NATO which presumably would remain unchanged with a Grexit but who knows what economic commitments might ensue. However, it was suggested (perhaps by Krugman) that Russia's economy may itself not be in a very fit state to supply any meaningful benefit to Greece. But I don't think the EU/US should get complacent over any of this.

Robert C

On 7/7/15 10:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote:

Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with exactly the kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only be had on the black market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was scarce; labor was mostly women moving bricks from bombed buildings by hand (die Trummelfrauen). Then came the Marshall Plan. But Thomas Piketty has complained (to one of the major German newspapers yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was clear the country could never pay it off—only then came the Wirtschaftswunder, the Economic Miracle.

Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket...

On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Marcus,

Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week. Am I missing something? I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. etc. I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left parties. Rioting, and bloodshed? Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you know that I don’t know?

Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan.

N

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

From: Friam [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis & Philosophy

“Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.”

Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs?

Marcus

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