|
|
I'm going to answer Russ off-line, since I know most of you aren't interested in this. But FYI my question was appropriate and valid: his answer would let me know frames of reference and terminology that might be most likely to be understood in my answer to Russ' question. Anyone who's interested in being part of this conversation, email me.
Tory
On Aug 15, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Russ Abbott wrote: You made the comment about multiple paths up the mountain. I asked you why you think it's important to climb the mountain. Asking about my motivation doesn't answer that question.
-- Russ
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Victoria Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote: What motivates you?
On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Russ Abbott wrote: Why do yo think it's important to climb the mountain?
-- Russ
On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Victoria Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote: There are many paths up the mountain.
Tory
On Aug 15, 2010, at 9:22 AM, Sarbajit Roy wrote: Thanks I've just been reading some basic stuff about TSK on the net. The TSK movement seems to me about "living" - making the most out of life, time / object management for Westerners, whereas Asian Yoga addresses moving between various mind unrealities and rejection of earthly existence to assimilate a nothingness into awareness. Sarbajit On 8/15/10, Victoria Hughes < [hidden email]> wrote: Not Yoga, except in that joined place of deep time and refined
information that all investigations approach.
Although some parts of his text sound like the Patanjali Sutras.
Tarthang Tulku is/was a well-known much-loved and much published
Tibetan Buddhist Lama, from the Nyinmga lineage. Very old, highly
refined investigative mental focus and skepticism. Powerful practice
if you do it.
He came to the west decades ago and began the Nyingma Buddhist
Institute in Berkeley.
In his practice and observations of Buddhist investigation of the
Western psychology, he developed a body of information and practical
awareness called Time Space, Knowledge. I did several courses of
practice in it when I lived in Berkeley. Nyingma is perched up above
the city, above on the campus and near the lab.
The people involved tended to be of the European academic
intellectual bent. Very intense, rigorous practice, the Rinpoche knew
his audience. Although like all Tibetan Buddhists, there's a very
practical and earthy acceptance.
Tory
On Aug 15, 2010, at 6:46 AM, Sarbajit Roy wrote:
Hi,
I'm sorry, but what is this ?
Its Yoga, not as we know it Jim.
Sarbajit
On 8/15/10, Rich Murray <[hidden email]> wrote:
bold concepts re practical unity awareness: Fw: [tsk] What's TSK
inquiry,
and what 'new core values' might TSK promote? Steve Randall: Rich
Murray
2010.08.14
[ re "Time, Space, and Knowledge", Tarthang Tulku, Rinpoche, 1977 ]
http://tska.info/prsnt.html
http://stevrandal.wordpress.com/about/
http://stevrandal.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/whats-the-zone-of-peak-performance/
]
----- Original Message -----
From: "stevrandal" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: [tsk] What's TSK inquiry, and what 'new core values' might
TSK
promote?
In a paper titled "Human Values in a Changing World," compiled by
Gaynor
Austen from handwritten notes by Maaida Palmer, late director of
the Turiya
Yoga Centres in Australia, Maaida wrote:
* Why are values so important to mankind?
* Have new values come to be recognised, or are the old values
constantly
being presented?
. . .
In this changing world, has anyone discovered a new human value
that he
wants to disclose? It appears that our task is rather the
stocktaking of
values we already have.
. . .
The optimists say the flux in the current lifestyle is but the
passing out
of old outmoded values that have not worked and the introduction of
new
values yet to be born.
. . .
Is it possible to introduce a system of values based on knowledge
of the
nature of the human person - one that each individual can
understand to be
true and not just a system that is believed, or seems to be true?
To me it seems that with TSK, Tarthang Tulku promotes the previously
underrated value of the process or method of inquiry, of clear
seeing,
sensing, and exploring, going into all apparently fixed, or `real',
or
'true' reference points, structures, beliefs, and assumptions, in
an open,
nonskeptical, yet challenging dis-covery process that eventually,
directly,
and effectively transparentizes or dissolves all structures,
limitations,
and fixed dynamics. Inquiry is a valued means of discovery, or dis-
covery.
Apparently 'simply' clearing the clouds is sufficient, and
simultaneously
shows the sunlight.
Within the TSK texts, paradoxical, shared, naturally inherent, core
'values' or quality-facets are described. Those following were
derived
from (yet may not faithfully represent) statements in the texts:
1: flow
. tension and resistance without effort by a self.
. coordination and order with complete spontaneity, and without
control by a self.
. dancing without a sense of a dancer, or doer of the dancing.
. a particular person doing something while there is complete
spontaneity, with no doer.
. attribution of causation without experiencing a causative entity
or event separate from an effect.
2: creativity
. Appearance and events can have identifiable causes and sources
within the
world, and yet things can feel as though they come out of nowhere,
with no
source or cause.
. The same objects, people, and world can be recognized repeatedly
over
time,
and yet be seen as fresh, original appearances each time.
. People and things can be assigned a historical identity while
felt to be
discontinuous
or to be recreated moment by moment.
3: accomplishment
. While we can attribute production and service to a particular
individual,
that person can experience the work as an activity that flowed by
itself,
with
no effort.
4: objective space
. Familiar things, while separate and distributed over ordinary
space, are
nevertheless
unseparated and even intimately connected within and as a higher
order,
dimensionless space.
. While the physical world may be a referent for any activity, no
world
order
seems fixed outside and around us.
. Objects may have an inside and outside, yet they need not have any
perceived
depth.
. While there may be measurable lengths, there is no felt distance.
. Although objects have volume, they aren't experienced as
extending in
space,
or exclusively occupying space.
. Geographical coordinates and points, and "here" and "there" can
mark
positions;
however, there are no felt spatial divisions or extension-everything
is the same space, "here."
5: mental space
. I can have a mind without needing to feel that it's separate from
others'
minds.
. I can have a mind without feeling that it's stable, continuously
existing,
or
independent of "the outside."
. I can have a personal space or position without having to feel
separate
from
anything/anyone else.
6: identity
. There can be people with names and histories who nevertheless
have no
sense of substantiality or continuous existence.
. There can be recognizable personality without an experience of
personality-owner
and without a feeling of repeated patterns.
7: locus of knowing
. While an individual can know and perceive, knowing need not feel
like it
belongs to a person, takes time, or radiates or occurs from a center.
. When a particular person knows an object, there may be no felt
distinction
between knower and known.
. When a particular person knows a locatable object, knowing can be
experienced
as a nonlocated encompassing field.
8: content of knowing
. While particular objects, events, or thoughts are known, still
there can
be a
sense of comprehensive, unbounded knowing.
. The perception of a particular object need not involve a sense of a
perceiver
nor any feeling of separate context for the object.
. Thoughts can express distinctions without referring to
experientially
separate
objects, people, or events.
. Memories need not refer to a separate past position, and hopes,
anticipations,
and expectations need not refer to separate future positions.
. Pain, suffering, and emotion can appear without a relatively
positioned
victim
or owner.
9: well-being
. There can be a person with a personality, reasoning, emotion,
sensation,
intuition,
and different body parts without any sense of fragmentation or
feeling
of separate "parts."
10: need and fulfillment
. A person can have desire and preference, or can pursue this or
that course
of action, without any sense of need or deficiency.
. Whether a situation is labeled positive or negative, ugly or
imperfect,
fulfillment
and complete appreciation are immediately available.
. Within a finite duration of clock time infinite fulfillment is
available.
. Although most of the world is outside the individual, a person
need not
feel
cut off from or lacking anything.
11: feeling of time
. There can be distinguishable past, present, and future times
without any
felt
separation between the times.
. Events can "occur" without any experienced movement or transition
from
one to another.
. Clock time may be finite and limited, but the experienced
duration of a
period
of clock time is not at all fixed.
12: feeling of reality
. While objects and people exist and interact, they can seem
ethereal and
insubstantial.
. When events occur, it can seem dreamlike, as though nothing at
all is
really
happening.
. The clearer our perception, the less we see reality as a compounded
object.
. Although knowledge may refer to physical and mental realities,
certainty
is diminished in proportion to how experientially separate entities
seem.
. Experiential fragmentation of objective reality destroys certainty.
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tsk/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tsk/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
[hidden email]
[hidden email]
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
-----------------------------------
TORY HUGHES
[hidden email]
Tory Hughes website
Facebook|Tory Hughes Art
------------------------------------
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
----------------------------------- TORY HUGHES ------------------------------------
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
----------------------------------- TORY HUGHES ------------------------------------
-----------------------------------TORY HUGHES------------------------------------ -----------------------------------TORY HUGHES------------------------------------ ============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
|
Locked
