Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
 
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Fascinating. I certainly was surprised so few countries would grant him asylum. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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You underestimate the influence of the good old boy system. He exposed the head of them NSA as a liar, and in so doing made the entire top echelon of the US government look dishonest and foolish. They want to make him pay, and leaning on weaker governments to not accept his requests for asylum is one way they are trying to do that. BTW, I am at Blackhat this week, and General Alexander, head of the NSA got a very chilly reception here during his keynote talk yesterday. The story left out the part about when General Alexander said that all of this NSA civilian surveillance was to protect American freedom, and somebody in the audience shouted, "BULLSHIT!" It got a bit lively after that... People seem to forget that it just doesn't matter. ▶ Show quoted text
Fascinating. I certainly was surprised so few countries would grant him asylum. -- Owen _______________________________________________ Wedtech mailing list [hidden email] http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/wedtech_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
I was not surprised that any/all countries not already on our shit-list were too afraid of us to stand up against us in any way. We have become the bullies of the world on many fronts (military, economic, covert-violence). (It is also fair to ask if we have ever been otherwise?) That leaves only countries already considered belligerent to us in other matters to take this on. I was (more?) surprised that Ecuador couldn't find a way to get both Snowden and Assange into their country. On the other hand, I suppose the Ecuador Embassy and the Moscow Airport are pretty secure yet public places. It would be hard for a bad actor (e.g. Blackwater operatives or "Dog the Bounty Hunter") to come in and snatch them without causing bigger problems for themselves. The promises the US made trying to retrieve him diplomatically had to be for show they were so pathetic! "Send him home, we promise not to seek the death penalty..." and "Send him home, we promise not to torture him...". Since we redefined "torture" against all common sense "enhanced interrogation techniques" (indefinite solitary confinement, sleep deprivation through visual and aural stimulus, forced feeding by nasal tube, and even (for a while?) waterboarding) were redefined as not being torture. Why not "send him home, if what he's exposed proves to be both true and well motivated, we'll give him a hero's welcome!". Or... "We understand his fear, let us put his allegations to the test and if they appear real, then we will *welcome* him back" "meanwhile, thanks for keeping him safe and out of more trouble for us!". I think Russia is still a superpower in their own mind and can (and need to for self-image?) stand up to us on principle. I can only imagine the hours (weeks?) of vodka quaffing and table pounding (with a shoe) that went on in the Kremlin (is that still where the deciders do their deciding?) ! I think these are all watershed events (Snowden, Manning, Zimmerman), not just because they have a high media profile, but because they simultaneously define the nature of government (ours in particular, but all in general methinks) and the inherent weakness in a massive surviellance/security state. When you make it possible for hundreds or thousands of analysts to access any and all communication over a long period of time in a wide net, it seems inevitable that one of them will take offense deep enough to break an oath and risk some heavy shit with our overt and covert gov't. Zimmerman is a creature of a different stripe, on principle representing the same spirit of "taking matters into your own hand on principle, no matter what the consequence", but in practice not coming off very righteous despite acquittal. We will martyr Manning and Snowden (en absentia?) while Zimmerman rides high on a systemic failure of justice. I *don't* know what happened between he and Martin but it would be as easy to claim Martin was "standing his ground" when he dropped his Arizona Iced Tea and Skittles to respond to Zimmerman's aggression to protect himself. If the guy walking down the street was responding to an armed aggressor by resisting him, knocking him down and maybe even getting a few blows in before he was shot, I'd say HE was standing HIS ground. If the "open secret" of total data capture on *all* communication within the reach of the NSA (most relevantly, that between US citizens within the borders of the US+territories, completely against the principles of our constitution and the extant rule of law) being disclosed (with supporting documentation) is "treason" then something is amiss. I'm glad that particular secret is out... I suspected it was true, I'm glad it is made public. The Manning disclosures were a larger and more complex mixed bag, but I don't think we made the case that he caused any *actual* harm and I think it was obvious that he had access to plenty of harmful material which he did *not* disclose. He disclosed only the embarrassing and truly whistleblowing material, and then through a secondary party with some credibility in place and to maintain around NOT seeking to actually compromise US (or anyone else's) security, but rather spark and fuel public debate and governmental/institutional (policy) reform. I'm not completely sure but I think the material on the Icelandic Financial stuff was instrumental in the successful criminal prosecution of the Icelandic bankers who went down in a way our own (criminal) bankers never will? </random rant> ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Here's a near comic but really scary example of just how idiotic these fools are: search for backpacks and pressure cookers and you get a visit by black SUVs and men in black:
-- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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Yes, really scary.
Doug, why do you say it doesn't really matter? (And fmi, what is Black Hat?) On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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Pamela, I am having interesting cut and paste issues, compounded by flaky wifi access while here at Blackhat. That last sentence appeared unnoticed by me in my previous message, thereby escaping the editorial process. However, all things considered (on the cosmological scale, anyhow), people tend to forget that it really doesn't matter... On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Pamela McCorduck <[hidden email]> wrote:
Doug Roberts
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck
Blackhat, fyi, is probably the premier, largest cybersecurity conference, held world wide. The US conference is always held in Las Vegas, in July.
On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Pamela McCorduck <[hidden email]> wrote:
Doug Roberts
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
I'm having interesting cut and paste issues here at Blackhat. The last sentence from my previous message didn't belong there... However, ultimately, on the cosmological scale of things, I guess it really doesn't matter... On Aug 1, 2013 10:22 AM, "Douglas Roberts" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by Pamela McCorduck
Pamela -
Yes, really scary.And extra scary to me because people use anecdotes like this to say "see, if you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to worry about!" I've been through mild versions of this scene myself and I'm not proud to say that I simply allowed it, letting the guns, badges, suits, etc. bully me into quiet cooperation. I think Doug's tongue was in his cheek when he said "it doesn't really matter", but I could be wrong. While it has never gone sideways on me, I don't particularly like talking to people with guns, especially if they seem to think I might have done something wrong. The badges are a mixed blessing. Naturally I'm happy that they are "supposed" to be there to protect and serve (local or national level) but I'm also unhappy that if they get scared or confused that they will have a great deal more presumed credibility than I will when push comes to shove. I've known plenty of people in various law-enforcement roles and nearly all of them are there *because* they are flawed in some way, not *despite* their flaws. Most I would not want to trust being able to see pretty much everything about me with a few keystrokes, yet I think that we have come to a place where many think that is a good idea, even neccesary. If it is OK to record all metadata, and maybe even (for a while only?) the data of actual telecommunications within the US, then maybe it is OK too to break (sneak?) into our computers and look through our (previously presumed private) data without cause (or legal standing). Maybe it is OK to activate the microphones and cameras on our computers "just to see if anything nefarious might be going on". And if such things were to happen (and be disclosed), there would be some (probably among us) who would say "better safe than sorry". And even more would accept as an argument even one single example where such invasion of privacy lead to stopping some dangerous/illegal/scary action. We do not have a good way to balance privacy vs security so we pick simple principles and err hard on one side or the other and shriek vehemenently when an exception occurs (on the other side's case), while making belligerent excuses when a failure illuminates the flaws in our own story. - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
On 8/1/13 11:30 AM, Owen Densmore
wrote:
It sure reads like an urban legend, but other stories reference it.. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/michele-catalano-and-family-get-visit-cops-after-searching-pressure-cookers-and-backpacks Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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My guess is that the how-to bomb instructions site was a honey pot. The "plan" was to find feeble minded Tsarnaev copycats who could be encouraged to build pressure cooker bombs.
Now, did the detectives from Nassau County just accidentally show up in black SUV's at the house of a former Forbes reporter, or was that the easiest way to make the rest of the list go away?
-- rec -- On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Marcus G. Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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On 8/1/13 4:09 PM, Roger Critchlow
wrote:
Who would be suspicious of searches for Quinoa? http://www.agriculture.ny.gov/KO/KOHome.html Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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Aha, an even less satisfying explanation: Dad's home because he recently left his previous job, and his search history on his work computer contained backpacks and pressure cookers, so his previous employer reported him as suspicious to the local cops.
-- rec -- On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Marcus G. Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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Well, as General Alexander said during Wednesday's keynote at Blackhat, all of this homegrown surveillance is to protect our freedom. Of course, at that point one member of the estimated 15,000 in the audience shouted BULLSHIT! loud enough for us all to hear. And when the General said that we (the NSA) were protecting you (us, the audience) from Al Queda attacks, that same guy shouted back, "THEY'RE ATTACKING US BECAUSE WE'RE BOMBING THEM!" And then things proceeded to get a bit lively. -Doug On Aug 1, 2013 7:28 PM, "Roger Critchlow" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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I am scratching my head that American officials have leaked the fact that we overheard the world leader of al Qaeda instructing the head of al Quaeda in Yemen to launch an attack.
Whose dog is this?
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Re: [WedTech] Fwd: Russia Grants Snowden 1-Year Asylum - NYTimes.com
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I agree, Roger, that makes no sense. I keep trying to interpret in terms of some double-double-double cross. Imply that we are listening to all their calls and force them to go back to using carrier pigeons. Hard for me to believe in the possibility of garden-variety stupidity. Nick From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Roger Critchlow I am scratching my head that American officials have leaked the fact that we overheard the world leader of al Qaeda instructing the head of al Quaeda in Yemen to launch an attack. Whose dog is this? -- rec -- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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