Fwd: Re: Wimsical silly question re: coffee making

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Fwd: Re: Wimsical silly question re: coffee making

Steve Smith


Mr. Coffee Gil -

I usually make my coffee with folded filter paper in a beaker, pouring through water just at the boiling point.  I'm not terribly picky about my coffee but I do enjoy the details of such a ritual and try to stay close to some optimum.  I think the common brand is "Chemex" (speaking of Glen's utility of beakers vs Popper's 3 worlds".

I find the two biggest variables beyond the choice of bean/roast is the grind and the temperature of the water.  

Being sometimes impatient, I am tempted to pour my water before it is at full temperature, or at least to "wet the grounds" with hot water in anticipation of the full event.

My subjective experience is that wetting the grounds (or starting with water not quite up to boiling) yields less-good results.  It could be a subjective judgement I have about "doing it right".  I seem to remember that English Tea is presumed to be best made by letting the kettle settle for a moment after it boils... that being too close too boiling is somehow a bad thing?  But you can't be sure it is "just below boiling" until it hits that point first?

I also find that the grind matters.  I recently recovered my coffee grinder so am no longer dependent on the grinds I get from the grocery.  For my method a finer, almost espresso-fine grind is preferred.

I just recovered a French Press maker which is a good alternative to the pour through, especially for just enough coffee for myself.   I think it is a 24 ounce vessel, so minus the grinds I probably get about 22 ounces of coffee... two good solid mugs.  More than that and I start compulsively posting nonsense to Friam!   This prefers a coarser ground to avoid that fine powdered coffee residue in the bottom of the cup.

This summer I tried making "cold brew" which is pretty simple.. rather than dropping the dirty sock filled with grounds into boiling water you put it in cold water and let it sit for 12-18 hours.  Despite my crude ideations about making coffee with dirty socks, I actually use a fancy carafe with a fine metal mesh filter for this...  it is much more civilized and doesn't require finding a sock without a hole.  Since I was *mostly* drinking iced coffee anyway, I decided to give it a whirl... it is supposed to (according to my PaleoDaughter) be healthier for you and according to (some) afficianados of coffee to be less bitter.   I liked it (esp for iced coffee), but also enjoy my coffee "brew" ritual enough that I'm very glad to have the temperatures dropping again so that I don't mind dumping a few extra BTUs into the house.   I'm very much looking forward to being able to have at least a small fire in my wood cookstove in the morning, which allows my beaker of coffee to sit and stay hot for much longer...    right now my weekly Junk-mail burn isn't quite enough to keep my coffee warm.

As for coffee sources, I have to admit to not really having good discrimination there.  I am *almost* as whimsical about that as about wine... I don't quite buy it (just) for the label (or the name of the source) but it *IS* a temptation.   I've a good friend from the highlands of Ethiopia so I often buy coffee from the region she came from just out of some weird loyalty.  After a long visit to Hawaii I found myself often enjoying Kona coffee.    I prefer a darker roast in general.  Oh yeh, and it almost exclusively involves some kind of Colonial Exploitation and a fat Carbon Footprint to haul it halfway around the world to me.  If I continue on my social-conscious arc, I may be reduced to dunking burned toast in a cup of hot water...

What do you add to your coffee?  I've always been a "I prefer my coffee dark and bitter like my women" kinda guy, but on a keto diet I'm learning to use a variety of fats to modify it.   The Keto/Paleo people suggest full on heavy creme (pure fat, no lactose) but I find it too weird (oily).   The hardcore Paleos who also endorse cold-brew describe "bulletproof" coffee with a dollop of butter, ghee, or coconut oil.   As much as I like butter, I don't like it much in coffee.  I'm looking forward to Pinon harvest because I grew up with the tradition of tossing a dozen pinon nuts (shell and all) into the grinder with the beans.   The nuts' fat DOES cut the harsher overtones and add an interesting aroma as well as a mild flavor.   But you kinda have to like "oily coffee" for any of these.

As for your "Fred Burns what was that?" style... I grew up on what most people would call "Diner Coffee" and have to admit that I can drink a half-dozen cups of that a truck stop with a traditional "Trucker's Breakfast" and be very happy.   Especially if the waitress (always named Flo) flirts with me a lot.  But it is not hardly the same as what I prefer to make in my beaker at home.  

'nuff for now

 - Steve



On 9/21/17 10:44 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
So I repeated Nicks experiment on the Densmore Coffe Effect (the one where some silly imp has some not the: run around the block or get inspired to do fun things.)

I think Nich and steve are both right on this one. ^_^   

Hmm so does adding water discourage sprites and dwarfs from creating a quatum tunnel to socks where the coffe goes?
Or is it as Merdle and you suspect adding water to coffe grounds gets water into the dry beans and also help the machine work? ^_^

As a follow up question: Being the good Norse+Iriish person I am I prefer blends of Arabica+Esspresso+Robusto. Rubusto is weirdly hard to find but doesn't taste like Freds Burnt What was that.?
Adding water to the grounds somehow gives Trader Joes Smooth Morning blend a nice smooth flavor. Any guesses to Why?  I joke their's some Quantom effect going on. :P

Might it  have to do with steam (in the basket?) and or the basket having a extra cup or so somehow rounds out the flavors? 

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ok, so, I did the experiment.

 

In a ten cup coffee maker I took a cup of water and pre soaked the grounds, taking off what dribbled through and pouring it back through until I had saturated the grounds.  The the grounds required a little short of a cup to saturate.  Then I put ten cups of water in the coffeemaker and let it rip.  I got ten cups of coffee out of it. The Densmore effect is due to the grounds.  Qed.

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:22 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Wimsical silly question re: coffee making

 

Hmmmm... well fortunatly Iike fun colorful socks... now if they show up full coffee been... 

 

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Steven A Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ooops... the "reply-to" on the list reflector seems not to be the list by default, so this just went to Merle the first time!

Gil -

I don't use an automated coffee maker often, but when I do (e.g. motel or visiting a friend) I forget that the filling system is measured in 8 oz cups but my expectations are closer to a 12 ounce mugfull, so 4 cups of water in yields something closer to 2.5 mugs out and of course if I"m on the west coast, the mugs are 16 ouncers which REALLY aggravates the situation!

 - Steve

PS.  a more whimsical answer is that you can probably expect to find the extra coffee in your laundry from time to time and some mismatched socks in your coffeemaker somewhere down the line!

 

On 9/19/17 3:50 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:

Gillian, all of the initial water is boiled, so some of the steam escapes from the coffeemaker, and some of the rest is in the wet grounds in the filter basket.  There may well be something else happening, but this accounts for some of it.

 

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

What on earth happens to some of the coffe when I make it drop style? I prepare 6-8 cups so as if someone stops by they can have a bit as well.

But then it only gives a bit over 4-5 cups.

 

Does some invisible dwarf drink a bit of it before it gets to the Kareff(sp)? oO

 

I am genuinly perplexed by this.^_^ 

 


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding

Saint Paul University

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

 

[hidden email]
mobile:  <a href="tel:%28303%29%20859-5609" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">(303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

 


============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

 


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


============================================================
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
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Re: Fwd: Re: Wimsical silly question re: coffee making

Gillian Densmore
Mmm Kona Koffe and Kava Coffe are indeed gloriusly awsome

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Steven A Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:


Mr. Coffee Gil -

I usually make my coffee with folded filter paper in a beaker, pouring through water just at the boiling point.  I'm not terribly picky about my coffee but I do enjoy the details of such a ritual and try to stay close to some optimum.  I think the common brand is "Chemex" (speaking of Glen's utility of beakers vs Popper's 3 worlds".

I find the two biggest variables beyond the choice of bean/roast is the grind and the temperature of the water.  

Being sometimes impatient, I am tempted to pour my water before it is at full temperature, or at least to "wet the grounds" with hot water in anticipation of the full event.

My subjective experience is that wetting the grounds (or starting with water not quite up to boiling) yields less-good results.  It could be a subjective judgement I have about "doing it right".  I seem to remember that English Tea is presumed to be best made by letting the kettle settle for a moment after it boils... that being too close too boiling is somehow a bad thing?  But you can't be sure it is "just below boiling" until it hits that point first?

I also find that the grind matters.  I recently recovered my coffee grinder so am no longer dependent on the grinds I get from the grocery.  For my method a finer, almost espresso-fine grind is preferred.

I just recovered a French Press maker which is a good alternative to the pour through, especially for just enough coffee for myself.   I think it is a 24 ounce vessel, so minus the grinds I probably get about 22 ounces of coffee... two good solid mugs.  More than that and I start compulsively posting nonsense to Friam!   This prefers a coarser ground to avoid that fine powdered coffee residue in the bottom of the cup.

This summer I tried making "cold brew" which is pretty simple.. rather than dropping the dirty sock filled with grounds into boiling water you put it in cold water and let it sit for 12-18 hours.  Despite my crude ideations about making coffee with dirty socks, I actually use a fancy carafe with a fine metal mesh filter for this...  it is much more civilized and doesn't require finding a sock without a hole.  Since I was *mostly* drinking iced coffee anyway, I decided to give it a whirl... it is supposed to (according to my PaleoDaughter) be healthier for you and according to (some) afficianados of coffee to be less bitter.   I liked it (esp for iced coffee), but also enjoy my coffee "brew" ritual enough that I'm very glad to have the temperatures dropping again so that I don't mind dumping a few extra BTUs into the house.   I'm very much looking forward to being able to have at least a small fire in my wood cookstove in the morning, which allows my beaker of coffee to sit and stay hot for much longer...    right now my weekly Junk-mail burn isn't quite enough to keep my coffee warm.

As for coffee sources, I have to admit to not really having good discrimination there.  I am *almost* as whimsical about that as about wine... I don't quite buy it (just) for the label (or the name of the source) but it *IS* a temptation.   I've a good friend from the highlands of Ethiopia so I often buy coffee from the region she came from just out of some weird loyalty.  After a long visit to Hawaii I found myself often enjoying Kona coffee.    I prefer a darker roast in general.  Oh yeh, and it almost exclusively involves some kind of Colonial Exploitation and a fat Carbon Footprint to haul it halfway around the world to me.  If I continue on my social-conscious arc, I may be reduced to dunking burned toast in a cup of hot water...

What do you add to your coffee?  I've always been a "I prefer my coffee dark and bitter like my women" kinda guy, but on a keto diet I'm learning to use a variety of fats to modify it.   The Keto/Paleo people suggest full on heavy creme (pure fat, no lactose) but I find it too weird (oily).   The hardcore Paleos who also endorse cold-brew describe "bulletproof" coffee with a dollop of butter, ghee, or coconut oil.   As much as I like butter, I don't like it much in coffee.  I'm looking forward to Pinon harvest because I grew up with the tradition of tossing a dozen pinon nuts (shell and all) into the grinder with the beans.   The nuts' fat DOES cut the harsher overtones and add an interesting aroma as well as a mild flavor.   But you kinda have to like "oily coffee" for any of these.

As for your "Fred Burns what was that?" style... I grew up on what most people would call "Diner Coffee" and have to admit that I can drink a half-dozen cups of that a truck stop with a traditional "Trucker's Breakfast" and be very happy.   Especially if the waitress (always named Flo) flirts with me a lot.  But it is not hardly the same as what I prefer to make in my beaker at home.  

'nuff for now

 - Steve



On 9/21/17 10:44 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
So I repeated Nicks experiment on the Densmore Coffe Effect (the one where some silly imp has some not the: run around the block or get inspired to do fun things.)

I think Nich and steve are both right on this one. ^_^   

Hmm so does adding water discourage sprites and dwarfs from creating a quatum tunnel to socks where the coffe goes?
Or is it as Merdle and you suspect adding water to coffe grounds gets water into the dry beans and also help the machine work? ^_^

As a follow up question: Being the good Norse+Iriish person I am I prefer blends of Arabica+Esspresso+Robusto. Rubusto is weirdly hard to find but doesn't taste like Freds Burnt What was that.?
Adding water to the grounds somehow gives Trader Joes Smooth Morning blend a nice smooth flavor. Any guesses to Why?  I joke their's some Quantom effect going on. :P

Might it  have to do with steam (in the basket?) and or the basket having a extra cup or so somehow rounds out the flavors? 

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:52 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ok, so, I did the experiment.

 

In a ten cup coffee maker I took a cup of water and pre soaked the grounds, taking off what dribbled through and pouring it back through until I had saturated the grounds.  The the grounds required a little short of a cup to saturate.  Then I put ten cups of water in the coffeemaker and let it rip.  I got ten cups of coffee out of it. The Densmore effect is due to the grounds.  Qed.

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:22 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Wimsical silly question re: coffee making

 

Hmmmm... well fortunatly Iike fun colorful socks... now if they show up full coffee been... 

 

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Steven A Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ooops... the "reply-to" on the list reflector seems not to be the list by default, so this just went to Merle the first time!

Gil -

I don't use an automated coffee maker often, but when I do (e.g. motel or visiting a friend) I forget that the filling system is measured in 8 oz cups but my expectations are closer to a 12 ounce mugfull, so 4 cups of water in yields something closer to 2.5 mugs out and of course if I"m on the west coast, the mugs are 16 ouncers which REALLY aggravates the situation!

 - Steve

PS.  a more whimsical answer is that you can probably expect to find the extra coffee in your laundry from time to time and some mismatched socks in your coffeemaker somewhere down the line!

 

On 9/19/17 3:50 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:

Gillian, all of the initial water is boiled, so some of the steam escapes from the coffeemaker, and some of the rest is in the wet grounds in the filter basket.  There may well be something else happening, but this accounts for some of it.

 

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

What on earth happens to some of the coffe when I make it drop style? I prepare 6-8 cups so as if someone stops by they can have a bit as well.

But then it only gives a bit over 4-5 cups.

 

Does some invisible dwarf drink a bit of it before it gets to the Kareff(sp)? oO

 

I am genuinly perplexed by this.^_^ 

 


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

Visiting Professor in Integrative Peacebuilding

Saint Paul University

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

 

[hidden email]
mobile:  <a href="tel:%28303%29%20859-5609" target="_blank">(303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

 


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

 


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove