Fwd: Question from Merle

[Merle Lefkoff-2]

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

Kram

Lars

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

--

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Frank Wimberly-2]

I haven't seen a centipede in years in Santa Fe.  They used to be common.  Most people don't like them.

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 9:27 AM Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

Kram

Lars

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

--

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Here's one example of what can happen when the federal government tries to protect land.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammond_arson_case

It should be so simple:   Pay people to do nothing.

Marcus

---

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

Kram

Lars

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

--

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[thompnickson2]

Hi Merle,

 

FWIW, not a philosopher; a psychologist ethologist.  And also an organic gardener, by the way, who began his career as such by reading Louis Bromfield.  So, Yes, let’s worry about soil life, too!

 

The manner in which Merle snipped my note blunted it’s main point.  The Holocene – roughly the last 12,000 years? – is marked by a dramatic decrease in year-to-year climate variability which brought the Pleistocene to an end.  This made sedentary human life possible and civilization as we know it, with its high concentrations of human activity and stunning population increases.  So far as I know, we don’t know what factors precipitated the Holocene, so we don’t know what factors might terminate it.  In short, the peaceful climate regimen in which we live and on which we depend is a bloody miracle.  This is what drives me nuts about the Gaia Hypothesis.  Sure, think of the biosphere as an organism, but don’t think of it as an organism that EVER had any interest in sustaining human life.  Or any life, for that matter, other than its own. 

 

But we all need to beware of Environment Derangement Syndrome, a state of mind in which we do nothing because it’s all so overwhelming.  What we all agree on, is that we cannot take things as they are for granted. You work on your insects, Merle can work on Global Warming, and I can sweat climate variability, and perhaps, if we all push really hard, we might, just MIGHT, just POSSIBLY, get another 12,000 years. 

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

 

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

 

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

 

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

 

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

 

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

 

Kram

Lars

 

 

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

 

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

 

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Marcus G. Daniels]

Nick writes:

< But we all need to beware of Environment Derangement Syndrome, a state of mind in which we do nothing because it’s all so overwhelming.  >

There's also the adapt (or leave) option. 

https://www.wired.com/story/ideas-jason-pontin-genetic-engineering-for-mars/

Marcus

---

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 10:42 AM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' <[hidden email]>
Cc: 'From: Lars Larsson' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Hi Merle,

 

FWIW, not a philosopher; a psychologist ethologist.  And also an organic gardener, by the way, who began his career as such by reading Louis Bromfield.  So, Yes, let’s worry about soil life, too!

 

The manner in which Merle snipped my note blunted it’s main point.  The Holocene – roughly the last 12,000 years? – is marked by a dramatic decrease in year-to-year climate variability which brought the Pleistocene to an end.  This made sedentary human life possible and civilization as we know it, with its high concentrations of human activity and stunning population increases.  So far as I know, we don’t know what factors precipitated the Holocene, so we don’t know what factors might terminate it.  In short, the peaceful climate regimen in which we live and on which we depend is a bloody miracle.  This is what drives me nuts about the Gaia Hypothesis.  Sure, think of the biosphere as an organism, but don’t think of it as an organism that EVER had any interest in sustaining human life.  Or any life, for that matter, other than its own. 

 

But we all need to beware of Environment Derangement Syndrome, a state of mind in which we do nothing because it’s all so overwhelming.  What we all agree on, is that we cannot take things as they are for granted. You work on your insects, Merle can work on Global Warming, and I can sweat climate variability, and perhaps, if we all push really hard, we might, just MIGHT, just POSSIBLY, get another 12,000 years. 

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

 

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

 

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

 

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

 

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

 

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

 

Kram

Lars

 

 

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

 

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

 

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Stephen Guerin]

Lars, Merle, Nick, and FRIAM members,

Thank you for taking the time to respond, Lars! It's an important first spark of interaction between two groups with Stockholm and Santa Fe as nexus.

To the FRIAM Group members, Steve Smith can probably give you a good summary of our brief but intense interaction with the Stockholm Community last month which has Lars as a generous, in the background, avoiding the spotlight, yet most powerful leader/organizer. 

Merle was magnificent as a facilitator. Perhaps there's a way we can facilitate an electronic exchange between the two groups as a kind of question and response could flow between the two communities. Or some process that has a feel of a  https://bohmdialogue.org/  ? We certainly need to be sharing ideas and coming to greater understanding without traveling great distances to accomplish it :-)

Lars, our FRIAM (Friday morning) Group mailing list has 351 members from around the world interested in theory and applications of Complexity. This email is on that list and your response is on that list.

The public archives are here"
   http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 

and the context of Nick's question was on this thread:

  http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/climate-change-questions-td7594117.html 

-Stephen

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 10:42 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Merle,

 

FWIW, not a philosopher; a psychologist ethologist.  And also an organic gardener, by the way, who began his career as such by reading Louis Bromfield.  So, Yes, let’s worry about soil life, too!

 

The manner in which Merle snipped my note blunted it’s main point.  The Holocene – roughly the last 12,000 years? – is marked by a dramatic decrease in year-to-year climate variability which brought the Pleistocene to an end.  This made sedentary human life possible and civilization as we know it, with its high concentrations of human activity and stunning population increases.  So far as I know, we don’t know what factors precipitated the Holocene, so we don’t know what factors might terminate it.  In short, the peaceful climate regimen in which we live and on which we depend is a bloody miracle.  This is what drives me nuts about the Gaia Hypothesis.  Sure, think of the biosphere as an organism, but don’t think of it as an organism that EVER had any interest in sustaining human life.  Or any life, for that matter, other than its own. 

 

But we all need to beware of Environment Derangement Syndrome, a state of mind in which we do nothing because it’s all so overwhelming.  What we all agree on, is that we cannot take things as they are for granted. You work on your insects, Merle can work on Global Warming, and I can sweat climate variability, and perhaps, if we all push really hard, we might, just MIGHT, just POSSIBLY, get another 12,000 years. 

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

 

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

 

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

 

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

 

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

 

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

 

Kram

Lars

 

 

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

 

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

 

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[thompnickson2]

Thanks, Steve,

 

Nick

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 11:37 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Cc: From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Lars, Merle, Nick, and FRIAM members,

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond, Lars! It's an important first spark of interaction between two groups with Stockholm and Santa Fe as nexus.

 

To the FRIAM Group members, Steve Smith can probably give you a good summary of our brief but intense interaction with the Stockholm Community last month which has Lars as a generous, in the background, avoiding the spotlight, yet most powerful leader/organizer. 

 

Merle was magnificent as a facilitator. Perhaps there's a way we can facilitate an electronic exchange between the two groups as a kind of question and response could flow between the two communities. Or some process that has a feel of a  https://bohmdialogue.org/  ? We certainly need to be sharing ideas and coming to greater understanding without traveling great distances to accomplish it :-)

 

Lars, our FRIAM (Friday morning) Group mailing list has 351 members from around the world interested in theory and applications of Complexity. This email is on that list and your response is on that list.

 

The public archives are here"
   http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 

and the context of Nick's question was on this thread:

  http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/climate-change-questions-td7594117.html 

 

-Stephen

 

--- -. .   ..-. .. ... ....   - .-- ---   ..-. .. ... ....

[hidden email]

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: [phone]  mobile: [phone]   

tw: @redfishgroup  skype: redfishgroup

redfish.com  |  simtable.com

 

 

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 10:42 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Merle,

 

FWIW, not a philosopher; a psychologist ethologist.  And also an organic gardener, by the way, who began his career as such by reading Louis Bromfield.  So, Yes, let’s worry about soil life, too!

 

The manner in which Merle snipped my note blunted it’s main point.  The Holocene – roughly the last 12,000 years? – is marked by a dramatic decrease in year-to-year climate variability which brought the Pleistocene to an end.  This made sedentary human life possible and civilization as we know it, with its high concentrations of human activity and stunning population increases.  So far as I know, we don’t know what factors precipitated the Holocene, so we don’t know what factors might terminate it.  In short, the peaceful climate regimen in which we live and on which we depend is a bloody miracle.  This is what drives me nuts about the Gaia Hypothesis.  Sure, think of the biosphere as an organism, but don’t think of it as an organism that EVER had any interest in sustaining human life.  Or any life, for that matter, other than its own. 

 

But we all need to beware of Environment Derangement Syndrome, a state of mind in which we do nothing because it’s all so overwhelming.  What we all agree on, is that we cannot take things as they are for granted. You work on your insects, Merle can work on Global Warming, and I can sweat climate variability, and perhaps, if we all push really hard, we might, just MIGHT, just POSSIBLY, get another 12,000 years. 

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

 

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

 

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

 

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

 

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

 

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

 

Kram

Lars

 

 

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

 

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

 

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[thompnickson2]

This the graph that terrifies me:

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

 

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

 

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

 

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

 

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

 

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

 

Kram

Lars

 

 

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

 

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

 

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Merle Lefkoff-2]

Nick, first I need to figure out your discipline.  is it a combination of two sub-disciplines:  comparative psychology and ethology?

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 11:54 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

This the graph that terrifies me:

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

[hidden email]

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:27 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle

 

Nick, I presented your question about variability to our close Swedish colleague, Lars Larsson.  Here is his response below.

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 6:10 AM
Subject: Sv: Question from Merle
To: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>

 

Hej Merle,

All farming-land need a rotation of different crops. Some times perennial plants to increase the nitrogen and some time other crops.

So it means that we need a rotation program (3-5 year) and this different plant must stand the climate change.

 

A bigger problem is the insects. We need them for this rotation. I have been working with my local food program since we met in Stockholm.

I talk to fisher/hunters and they told me that this year the fishing was zero. So I talk to next village and next village and next village and everywhere the same problem.

 

So I find some experts (entomologist) of insects and they told me that the situation is catastrophic. The insect are  more or less extinct. In this clean country?

We cant focus on climate change, it is only a part of the problem. Just now, just here it is not a problem at all. The problem with lack of insects is worse.

 

The entomologists told me the they have warn the government years ago. The problem is the management of the forests and the pesticides from the farming.

This is two sensitive areas for the government so they did not listen. If the scientist was to tell about it they lost their titles so they could not tell the truth about it.

And it is still the same situation.

 

So in my topsoil improvement program I involve the insects and now it is emergency. We have 2-3 years to help them to survival. 

If the insects will be extinct the climate doesn't matter we can't survival. It takes millions of years to repair. Climate can be adjusted i 100 year if we want.

 

Kram

Lars

 

 

---

Från: Merle Lefkoff <[hidden email]>
Skickat: den 5 januari 2020 07:54
Till: Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Ämne: Question from Merle

 

A member of the complexity group here is a retired Philosophy professor.  I've got them all thinking about climate now, and here is what Nick wrote:

 

"I could (after some labor) cite data to support the following concern:  What we should be watching out for, perhaps more than long term climate warming, is increases in year-to-year climate variability.  

You can grow rape seed in Canada and maize in the US, and as the 
 climate alters, the bands of climate supporting these two crops will 
 move north.  But what happens if one year the climate demands one crop  and the next the other?  And the switch from one to the other is entirely unpredictable.

 

LARS--is this a good idea?  Do you have data on this?

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

 

--

Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org

Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

[hidden email]
mobile:  [phone]
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2

twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

--

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Steve Smith]

> Lars, Merle, Nick, and FRIAM members,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond, Lars! It's an important
> first spark of interaction between two groups with Stockholm and Santa
> Fe as nexus.
Just to second Stephen's praise for both Lars' and Merle's "shepherding"
our group so deftly.   Kudos to Lars and Merle (and the other participants)!
> Perhaps there's a way we can facilitate an electronic exchange between
> the two groups as a kind of question and response could flow between
> the two communities. Or some process that has a feel of
> a  https://bohmdialogue.org/  ? We certainly need to be sharing ideas
> and coming to greater understanding without traveling great distances
> to accomplish it :-)

In the spirit of Merle's "Emergent Diplomacy", the way she facilitated
the meeting did allow-for and yield a certain amount of emergence and
self-organization and Lars style fully supported the same.   I am a fan
of Bohm's "Rheomode" and perhaps the precedent in the implementation of
collective dialogue building through Ward Cunningham's Wiki Wiki and
then more familiarly Wales and Sanger's Wikipedia... which we all use
even if we sometimes love to hate it.

For what it is worth, Nick tried to instigate an interesting
process/structure that he described as "noodling" or perhaps "noodling
around"... as I remember it, an aesthetic for taking any noodle (thread)
and cross-linking it with other noodles (threads) in a constructive
manner.   I wasn't able to (easily) find the discussion of this on the
SFComplex mail-list, but wanted to at least give Nick a nod for his
ongoing, indomitable spirit for trying to build collective work-products
from freewheeling ad-hoc collaboration.

- Steve


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[thompnickson2]

Steve,

You a good and kind man!

FRIAM is the petri-dish that brings ideas from different sources into proximity, and metaphors are the enzymes that actually coax them into interaction.  No other working group has ever been as stimulating.  I have often said, I owe my intellectual (if not biological) survival to it.  Five scientific papers have been published because of the proddings and goadings of our FRIAM colleagues, and I am starting working on a sixth, now.  Thanks for that.

Nick


Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 12:41 PM
To: [hidden email]; Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle


> Lars, Merle, Nick, and FRIAM members,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond, Lars! It's an important
> first spark of interaction between two groups with Stockholm and Santa
> Fe as nexus.
Just to second Stephen's praise for both Lars' and Merle's "shepherding"
our group so deftly.   Kudos to Lars and Merle (and the other participants)!
> Perhaps there's a way we can facilitate an electronic exchange between
> the two groups as a kind of question and response could flow between
> the two communities. Or some process that has a feel of a  
> https://bohmdialogue.org/  ? We certainly need to be sharing ideas and
> coming to greater understanding without traveling great distances to
> accomplish it :-)

In the spirit of Merle's "Emergent Diplomacy", the way she facilitated the meeting did allow-for and yield a certain amount of emergence and self-organization and Lars style fully supported the same.   I am a fan of Bohm's "Rheomode" and perhaps the precedent in the implementation of collective dialogue building through Ward Cunningham's Wiki Wiki and then more familiarly Wales and Sanger's Wikipedia... which we all use even if we sometimes love to hate it.

For what it is worth, Nick tried to instigate an interesting process/structure that he described as "noodling" or perhaps "noodling around"... as I remember it, an aesthetic for taking any noodle (thread) and cross-linking it with other noodles (threads) in a constructive manner.   I wasn't able to (easily) find the discussion of this on the SFComplex mail-list, but wanted to at least give Nick a nod for his ongoing, indomitable spirit for trying to build collective work-products from freewheeling ad-hoc collaboration.

- Steve


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[Tom Johnson]

Nick:

Five published papers, you say. Might you have left out the book of proceedings of the Ver 1.0 conference held in Santa Fe in 2006. Many of the goals of the conference were ignited by FRIAM conversations. Many current FRIAM participants were involved. 

See http://www.lulu.com/shop/j-t-johnson/ver-10-workshop-proceedings/paperback/product-546459.html

Tom 

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 6:45 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

Steve,

You a good and kind man!

FRIAM is the petri-dish that brings ideas from different sources into proximity, and metaphors are the enzymes that actually coax them into interaction.  No other working group has ever been as stimulating.  I have often said, I owe my intellectual (if not biological) survival to it.  Five scientific papers have been published because of the proddings and goadings of our FRIAM colleagues, and I am starting working on a sixth, now.  Thanks for that.

Nick


Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
[hidden email]
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 12:41 PM
To: [hidden email]; Lars Larsson <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: Question from Merle


> Lars, Merle, Nick, and FRIAM members,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond, Lars! It's an important
> first spark of interaction between two groups with Stockholm and Santa
> Fe as nexus.
Just to second Stephen's praise for both Lars' and Merle's "shepherding"
our group so deftly.   Kudos to Lars and Merle (and the other participants)!
> Perhaps there's a way we can facilitate an electronic exchange between
> the two groups as a kind of question and response could flow between
> the two communities. Or some process that has a feel of a 
> https://bohmdialogue.org/  ? We certainly need to be sharing ideas and
> coming to greater understanding without traveling great distances to
> accomplish it :-)

In the spirit of Merle's "Emergent Diplomacy", the way she facilitated the meeting did allow-for and yield a certain amount of emergence and self-organization and Lars style fully supported the same.   I am a fan of Bohm's "Rheomode" and perhaps the precedent in the implementation of collective dialogue building through Ward Cunningham's Wiki Wiki and then more familiarly Wales and Sanger's Wikipedia... which we all use even if we sometimes love to hate it.

For what it is worth, Nick tried to instigate an interesting process/structure that he described as "noodling" or perhaps "noodling around"... as I remember it, an aesthetic for taking any noodle (thread) and cross-linking it with other noodles (threads) in a constructive manner.   I wasn't able to (easily) find the discussion of this on the SFComplex mail-list, but wanted to at least give Nick a nod for his ongoing, indomitable spirit for trying to build collective work-products from freewheeling ad-hoc collaboration.

- Steve


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove