Here's one for the Republicans (or closet Republicans) on the list:
http://www.prayerforceone.com/pray_in_whitehouse_login.asp Y'all do remember these, don't you? I wonder how many of these Bush supporters still attend those White House prayer meetings? How many people on this list *don't* think that religion has been , and continues to be a (the?) major factor in American politics? What ever happened to the precept of separation of church and state, anyhow? The whole concept of "White House Prayer Meetings" gives me a major case of the creeps. While we're on the subject, don't forget to look at this. --Doug ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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On Nov 2, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
> How many people on this list *don't* think that religion has been , > and > continues to be a (the?) major factor in American politics? Doug, I really do feel your pain. But cut us a bit of slack, OK? Fundamentalism is certainly an issue, but not *all* religion is fundamentalist. Friam is a fairly rich and diverse community, a number of whom are religious. We have Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and more. Show them some respect, please. Would it surprise you to know that one of the first publications on Chaos and Complexity is from the Vatican Observatory press? The first chapter includes Crutchfield, Farmer, Shaw, and Packard? Do you know that the current pope advised against single-issue voting on abortion, and advised that religious voters consider that hunger, homelessness, sickness, war, etc are also anti-life? > What ever happened to the precept of separation of church and state, > anyhow? Christ talks about it: render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. So do Buddhists. If politicians have forgotten that, then bad on them, not the church. I don't want to start a flame war on religion, but please remember you have religious family and friends who are kind, gentle, compassionate and as anti-fundamentalist as you are. -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Owen,
It's more like a chronic irritation than actual pain, but I hear your rebuke. I suppose that when the RWRDDA movement (Right Wing Religious Dumbing Down of America) movement becomes sufficiently intolerable to more of our scientific community, additional folks will begin to speak out on the subject. Perhaps if we get a Creationist Vice President the process will accelerate! Until then, I'll pipe down. --Doug On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Douglas Roberts wrote:
> I suppose that when the RWRDDA movement (Right Wing Religious Dumbing > Down of America) movement becomes sufficiently intolerable to more of > our scientific community, additional folks will begin to speak out on > the subject. Perhaps if we get a Creationist Vice President the > process will accelerate! > Speaking of Mavericks, there's an entertaining Nova called "Hunting the Hidden Dimension" starring among others Benoit Mandelbrot, and SFI's Geoffrey West, James Brown, and Brian Enquist. In particular, the program notes how the mathematics establishment regarded Mandelbrot's research as not being an important contribution. There are other sources of dogma besides from religious folks. Dogma also can be advanced when scientists have their prominence threatened by competing approaches... Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
The Los Alamos High School teachers were told last year that they could no longer teach evolution in their classes. Pretty soon dogma will be all that is allowed to be taught. One way to eliminate competition...
--Doug On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Marcus G. Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
I did not see that program, but Joe says he recently saw Mandelbrot
(perhaps on that program) assigned by the interviewer credit for the butterfly effect. Instead of saying oh no, that was Ed Lorenz, he just sat there smiling, not contradicting. Bad form, very bad form. On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:38 AM, Marcus G. Daniels wrote: > Douglas Roberts wrote: >> I suppose that when the RWRDDA movement (Right Wing Religious >> Dumbing Down of America) movement becomes sufficiently intolerable to >> more of our scientific community, additional folks will begin to >> speak out on the subject. Perhaps if we get a Creationist Vice >> President the process will accelerate! >> > Speaking of Mavericks, there's an entertaining Nova called "Hunting > the Hidden Dimension" starring among others Benoit Mandelbrot, and > SFI's Geoffrey West, James Brown, and Brian Enquist. In particular, > the program notes how the mathematics establishment regarded > Mandelbrot's research as not being an important contribution. There > are other sources of dogma besides from religious folks. Dogma also > can be advanced when scientists have their prominence threatened by > competing approaches... > > Marcus > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > "If ever there was a book calculated to make a man in love with its author, this appears to me to be the book." William Godwin, on reading Mary Wollstonecraft's first book ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Los Alamos? And the parents rose up as one?
On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote: > The Los Alamos High School teachers were told last year that they > could no longer teach evolution in their classes. Pretty soon dogma > will be all that is allowed to be taught. One way to eliminate > competition... > > --Doug > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Marcus G. Daniels > <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Douglas Roberts wrote: >>> I suppose that when the RWRDDA movement (Right  Wing Religious >>> Dumbing Down of America) movement becomes sufficiently intolerable >>> to more of our scientific community, additional folks will begin to >>> speak out on the subject.  Perhaps if we get a Creationist Vice >>> President the process will accelerate! >>> >> >> >> Marcus >> >> > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org author, this appears to me to be the book." William Godwin, on reading Mary Wollstonecraft's first book ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
A thundering silence was heard throughout the county. But then, it is a Republican county, by and large.
The creeping, incipient USA religiou-fication process has gone largely unopposed, and not just in our state's smallest county. But I promised Owen I'd give it a break... On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Pamela McCorduck <[hidden email]> wrote: Los Alamos? And the parents rose up as one? ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
I don't believe this is true about LAHS not teaching evolution. (It's
easily verified.) It is very rare for a scientist not to support the teaching of evolution and freedom of education. What is the source of this information? This is something that would have both students and parents marching in the street...not silent. It is not as Republican a county as you think, the county is 50%-50% and very likely to go to Obama tomorrow. Kari > A thundering silence was heard throughout the county. But then, it is a > Republican county, by and large. > > The creeping, incipient USA religiou-fication process has gone largely > unopposed, and not just in our state's smallest county. > > But I promised Owen I'd give it a break... > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Pamela McCorduck <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Los Alamos? And the parents rose up as one? >> >> >> On Nov 3, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote: >> >> The Los Alamos High School teachers were told last year that they could >> no >>> longer teach evolution in their classes. Pretty soon dogma will be all >>> that >>> is allowed to be taught. One way to eliminate competition... >>> >>> --Doug >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Marcus G. Daniels >>> <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Douglas Roberts wrote: >>>> >>>>> I suppose that when the RWRDDA movement (Right Wing Religious >>>>> Dumbing >>>>> Down of America) movement becomes sufficiently intolerable to more of >>>>> our >>>>> scientific community, additional folks will begin to speak out on the >>>>> subject. Perhaps if we get a Creationist Vice President the process >>>>> will >>>>> accelerate! >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> >>>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> >> "If ever there was a book calculated to make a man in love with its >> author, >> this appears to me to be the book." >> >> William Godwin, on reading Mary Wollstonecraft's first >> book >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Believe what you want. My wife taught at LA High School for 20 years. She and her colleagues were told that they could no longer teach evolution in their science classes last year. Because of this, in part, she retired.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:57 AM, Kari Sentz <[hidden email]> wrote: I don't believe this is true about LAHS not teaching evolution. (It's -- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Clarification (I just asked my wife for details): the (verbal) directive to not teach evolution in Los Alamos High School science classes was issued three years ago. Some of the teachers chose to circumvent this directive by teaching from the historical perspective of Darwin's life.
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Douglas Roberts <[hidden email]> wrote: Believe what you want. My wife taught at LA High School for 20 years. She and her colleagues were told that they could no longer teach evolution in their science classes last year. Because of this, in part, she retired. -- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
On Nov 3, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
> A thundering silence was heard throughout the county. But then, it > is a > Republican county, by and large. > > The creeping, incipient USA religiou-fication process has gone > largely > unopposed, and not just in our state's smallest county. > > But I promised Owen I'd give it a break... Well, actually I don't want to squash conversation, just be as clear as possible that its not religion, but a hopefully rare form of it, fundamentalism, that is so harmful. Not teaching evolution in school is just stupid. But, as Nick and I have chatted about a bit, I'd like to see a bit more formalism in your basic Darwinian evolution. Not because I don't believe in evolution, it'd be hard not to! But that I think evolution would be well served by more formal underpinnings. I don't fundamentalists attacking modern cosmology with the same success as they do evolution, and I have to assume the solid formal foundation of cosmology has something to do with that. I think the reason we don't see more mathematics applied to evolution is that the advances within genetics have become the primary focus of evolutionary studies. It certainly brims over with math! Do you think it might be more successful to just teach genetics in high school? -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
I suppose it would depend on what the motivation was for doing so in lieu of also teaching evolution. The reason for the "teach no more evolution" directive in Los Alamos was due to pressure from the Religious Right. That, and a hopelessly corrupted US-wide educational system which provided an environment that was prone to caving in to the demands of the "Moral Majority".
--Doug BTW, I'd like to point out that "Creationism" and Creationist beliefs fly in the face of modern cosmology. On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Doug Roberts, RTI International [hidden email] [hidden email] 505-455-7333 - Office 505-670-8195 - Cell ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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On Nov 3, 2008, at 10:08 AM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
> I suppose it would depend on what the motivation was for doing so in > lieu of > also teaching evolution. The reason for the "teach no more evolution" > directive in Los Alamos was due to pressure from the Religious > Right. That, > and a hopelessly corrupted US-wide educational system which provided > an > environment that was prone to caving in to the demands of the "Moral > Majority". That really is sad. I had no idea Los Alamos was so impaired. > BTW, I'd like to point out that "Creationism" and Creationist > beliefs fly in > the face of modern cosmology. Yes, and they do not get modern cosmology tossed out of the schools. Why? Its solid formal foundations. If you go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution .. you'll see that evolution almost immediately discusses DNA structures and so on. They break away from the "story" of evolution into its most formalizable successes. I seriously doubt fundamentalists could cause DNA genetics to get tossed from our schools. Googling "Evolution Textbook", I find similar results: they get to genetics etc pretty quickly. (Although I really appreciate other forms of evolution mechanics like Lynn Margulis: Microcosmos: Four Billion Years of Microbial Evolution) It seems to me that God did a great job with evolution. I mean, such a great process. Create some stuff, invent time, set the clock ticking and you're done. Brilliant! Then He gets to focus on the things that really matter like compassion, karma, love and so on. (I'd better ground myself!) -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Douglas Roberts wrote:
Clarification (I just asked my wife for details): the (verbal) directive to not teach evolution in Los Alamos High School science classes was issued three years ago. Some of the teachers chose to circumvent this directive by teaching from the historical perspective of Darwin's life. I can report on contrasting (but similar) situation where a friend was teaching Laser Science and Holography in a High School in Missouri a couple of years ago. It might not surprise us that in Missouri, a teacher would be told not to teach Evolution. This friend was not told not to teach evolution (it wasn't in his curricula anyway), but after many months of intriguing young minds with the wonders of science and technology, he managed to make some statement (I can't remember the particulars) that tied lots of what he'd said to them to the dirtiest of words - Evolution. After the reactions of most of his promising young science students made him aware that he'd stepped in something messy, he went to the principal to ask what the school policy was (assuming the worst). The principal simply said "You are on your own". The implied message was that the school would not interfere if he wanted to (needed to) go into such things, but that neither would they defend him against irate parents (and students) either. Being an easy-going but determined sort, he continued (carefully) with his class to engage them in all things scientific that he could and when he stumbled into the no-man's land of dogma, he let them blow off their dogmatic steam against Evolution and whatnot. I suspect he made some very serious headway into changing "hearts and minds" in that little Missouri town, simply by showing them how interesting Science could be but not needing to confront their dogma directly. I can just see him listening to them spout dogma back at him with a twinkle in his eye and then go back to whatever clever science experiment he was into, knowing they had to hear the inanity of their own line, without him saying a word against it. Los Alamos is a different story. My daughters both went through the LA school systems and I found the DARE (Drugs Are Really Expensive) program started when my oldest was in 6th grade every bit as offensive as banning Evolution from Science. My very strong-willed daughter came home one day chanting "I will think for myself, I WILL think for myself, I will THINK for myself... " and told me all about the DARE program that one of LA's finest had come to tell them about. She was really excited. They were all being offered a chance to "think for themselves!" with a vengeance, what could be better? They were going to have a club whose motto was "I think for myself!". There was even a subtext that part of thinking for themselves was reporting to the club-meister ( a police officer ) anyone they knew of using illegal drugs. I have my own reasons (beyond security clearances, etc) for rejecting the pop-drug-culture, but this was patently offensive and wrong. The schools (and police) were one step away from creating something like the "Brown Shirts" of Nazi Germany. Fortunately, I was able to laugh it off and steer my 12 year old back onto her old track of *thinking for herself* and once she realized they were pandering to that part of her ego and in fact were asking her to do anything but *think for herself*, she was free of their mesmerization. Unfortunately at least half of her peer group ate it up like Doug's proverbial dog-vomit and proudly. I don't know what their parents told them... but I suspect they either didn't want to "rock the boat" or they actually thought teaching children to "think for themselves" amounted to teaching them how to recite that line while goose-stepping through the halls in cadence. Sad for such an educated and presumably enlightened community. With that backdrop, it is only a small step (in my mind) to the same administration and teachers going along with "no Evolution teaching". I am as surprised as most of you that there was not an uprising over the "banning of Evolution" (even) at LAHS. I can see why Doug might have developed an acute sense of (what do we call paranoia when it is well founded?). Do we have others with children or teachers in the LAHS system here to report? I would expect at the very least, for the thespians to write a scathing satire about this and perform it every semester. Doug? Maybe you can get this started? I am not a big fan of public school systems in general, but like Democracy, find them a lesser of evils, and the LA schools systems having the blessing of a good budget and some very motivated and capable teachers. I'm even a lesser fan of elite (often religious) private schools either BTW, and home-schooling as it is often done today (usually for elitist and/or religious reasons) sucks even more! I just can't be pleased, can I? There is very little that my daughters learned in school that I didn't have the opportunity (as with the DARE program) to provide some perspective. Had they been raised in a time of "non-Evolution" we would have had long, often hilarious talks about it, I am sure. As we did around the DARE program and any number of other popular educational pecadillos. - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
Douglas Roberts wrote:
> That, and a hopelessly corrupted US-wide educational system which > provided an environment that was prone to caving in to the demands of > the "Moral Majority". Another dimension of the Republican world view is found in trickle-down economics. In this view, there are people that create wealth (business owners) and those that depend on that wealth (workers). Those that create wealth are a subset of society, and are identified in the natural process of their participation in the economy. (Presumably they are exceptionally hard working and smart.) Of course, those that create or have wealth do also depend on the workers, so it does not seem surprising to me that they aren't bothered by the possibility of rigid schooling and indoctrination. After all, they want the workers out in the work force as soon as possible and don't want a lot of trouble. I'm not worried about rigid indoctrination, I'm worried about the blurring of education and indoctrination. In a free society, I think rigid indoctrination soon leads to new generation of independent thinkers. Such an educational system will self-correct sooner or later. What will take longer to correct is a situation where education further devolves into two different colors of teachers and curriculums, each pushing different agendas. A deeper problem, it seems to me, is there is little faith in people to learn, and little effort made to create the conditions where it can occur in an unrestrained way. In the U.S., most people very strongly expect education to be completed in the 20s and for that learning to be conducted by an institution ensuring certain specific results (skill sets). It is this set of expectations, and the many institutions that are invested in them, as much as religious organizations, that inhibit intrinsic motivation and independent thought. Happily, in this nation and others, there is so much money in technology that competition forces the development of novel technical skills. This even occurs independently from traditional educational organizations (e.g. the software industry). Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Thanks, Steve, but no thanks. I'm a big believer in Darwinism.
;-} I firmly subscribe to the belief that people (in the aggregate) largely get what they deserve. The lack of public outcry about LAHS's three year old Religious Right science teaching policy tells me that the current crop of parents up on "The Hill" have earned the right of having fostered a new generation of educationally deprived children. Extend this philosophy a bit: The people of the United States have richly earned the rewards from having voted Bush into office for subsequent terms. Extend this philosophy a bit more: The humans of this planet have richly earned the pleasures that our daily cesspool provides, such as well-attended Fundamentalist-inspired 13 year old rape victim stonings; Abu Graib; melamine-laced baby formula; teenagers breaking into a German zoo, attacking and wounding a 75 year old blind bird; and billion dollar golden parachutes as rewards for corrupt banking CEOs. Let's see a mathematical model that rigorously captures all of these societal behavior gems, and can replicate the behavior in a simulation. In other words, true change comes from within, if you have to impose it, it is not true change. If the race survives long enough, human society might eventually evolve into a more civilized form, but I'm not sure I'd bet on it. --Doug On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Doug -
> > I firmly subscribe to the belief that people (in the aggregate) > largely get what they deserve. The lack of public outcry about LAHS's > three year old Religious Right science teaching policy tells me that > the current crop of parents up on "The Hill" have earned the right of > having fostered a new generation of educationally deprived children. > > Extend this philosophy a bit: The people of the United States have > richly earned the rewards from having voted Bush into office for > subsequent terms. > > Extend this philosophy a bit more: The humans of this planet have > richly earned the pleasures that our daily cesspool provides, such as > well-attended Fundamentalist-inspired 13 year old rape victim > stonings; Abu Graib; melamine-laced baby formula; teenagers breaking > into a German zoo, attacking and wounding a 75 year old blind bird; > and billion dollar golden parachutes as rewards for corrupt banking CEOs. "Morbid Fascination". But I also seek (and live by) an opposing optimism that despite all the *unenlightened* self-interest in the world, we are capable (in the small, if not the large) of enlightened self interest, and I encourage and participate in it every opportunity I see. > > Let's see a mathematical model that rigorously captures all of these > societal behavior gems, and can replicate the behavior in a simulation. > > In other words, true change comes from within, if you have to impose > it, it is not true change. If the race survives long enough, human > society might eventually evolve into a more civilized form, but I'm > not sure I'd bet on it. Agreed. Let's have a beer! - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
Marcus G. Daniels wrote:
> Douglas Roberts wrote: >> That, and a hopelessly corrupted US-wide educational system which >> provided an environment that was prone to caving in to the demands of >> the "Moral Majority". > Another dimension of the Republican world view is found in > trickle-down economics. > In this view, there are people that create wealth (business owners) > and those that depend on that wealth (workers). And a slightly inverted view is that business owners (Capitalists) do not create wealth, but rather aggregate it (Capital) and that the actual creation of wealth (Productivity) is done by the workers (Labor). The two can operate in synergy or in opposition, depending on the level of "enlightenment" on both sides. The belief that workers are lazy and undisciplined leads to institutions (workplaces, governments, education) that actually reinforces that. > I'm not worried about rigid indoctrination, I'm worried about the > blurring of education and indoctrination. In a free society, I think > rigid indoctrination soon leads to new generation of independent > thinkers. Such an educational system will self-correct sooner or > later. What will take longer to correct is a situation where > education further devolves into two different colors of teachers and > curriculums, each pushing different agendas. I do think there are natural oscillations, a dynamic balance more robust than any utopian static-balance we can make up. > A deeper problem, it seems to me, is there is little faith in people > to learn, and little effort made to create the conditions where it can > occur in an unrestrained way. In the U.S., most people very strongly > expect education to be completed in the 20s and for that learning to > be conducted by an institution ensuring certain specific results > (skill sets). I think our education system conspires against us in several ways. First, it is mostly about indoctrinating us in a factory model. Learning to sit a desk, follow assembly-line-like learning plans, etc. Second, it believes in *teaching* and *performing* more than *learning* as evidenced by *standardized testing* and exacerbated by "No Child Left Behind" doctrines. We never give our children a chance to learn, we are too busy teaching them. Thirdly, it delays our maturity. An 18 year old in our society is still a child. We often do not allow our young adults to be adults until they have endured several rounds of hazing... from Middle-School to High School to University to Graduate Program to PostDoc. We come into our adult bodies and hormones in our mid-teens, but are not allowed (or expected) to act on the emotions and experiences that yields in any responsible way for nearly as many more years. > It is this set of expectations, and the many institutions that are > invested in them, as much as religious organizations, that inhibit > intrinsic motivation and independent thought. Even our PhDs are blue-collar in many cases. > Happily, in this nation and others, there is so much money in > technology that competition forces the development of novel technical > skills. This even occurs independently from traditional educational > organizations (e.g. the software industry). But as this becomes a "commodity" this force is undermined. While it has not fully taken effect, it does not surprise me that much of our software today is being created in "sweat shops" in India or (more recently) eastern Europe. We may be able to continue to "surf this wave" of innovation, but just as the skilled craftsman got run over (eventually) by the industrial age and the factory worker eventually got run over by the information age, the knowledge worker will be run over by whatever is emerging now. I don't mean this as doom and gloom, just as an awareness that we are all responsible for our own future and that even when the tide seems to be on our side, it can reverse in a moment. - Steve ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:30 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
>> <snip> > Agreed. Let's have a beer! > > - Steve Actually, I'd like to get back to that. We used to have a Friam beer now and again, what's a good time for folks? Cowgirl? Second Street? -- Owen ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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