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Friam Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13

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Nick Thompson

Friam Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13

Jim:

I will bite: An anarchist is somebody who is willing to bet that the
societal structures emergently produced by individuals acting individually
are likely to be no worst that the society structures produced by their
acting collectively.

> [Original Message]
> From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> To: <friam at redfish.com>
> Date: 4/13/2007 10:03:17 AM
> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13
>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Can you guess the source. (Gus Koehler)
> 2. Re: Can you guess the source. (alex strauss)
> 3. Re: Can you guess the source. (Marcus G. Daniels)
> 4. Re: Can you guess the source. (David Breecker)
> 5. Political discussion tonight. WAS: Re: Can you guess the
> source. (jpgirard)
> 6. Re: Can you guess the source. (Nicholas Thompson)
> 7. Re: Can you guess the source. (Phil Henshaw)
> 8. Re: Can you guess the source. (Marcus G. Daniels)
> 9. Re: Can you guess the source. (Michael Agar)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:22:04 -0700
> From: "Gus Koehler" <rhythm3 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: <stephen.guerin at redfish.com>, "'The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group'" <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <001c01c77d1e$b582d650$6501a8c0 at EA5E71A6DE4A4D9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Steve:
>
> Actually, your question is really hard. I have been involved in tracing

the
> significant issues--economic, political, ethical,
philosophical--associated
> with the emergence of various advanced technologies here in California.
> These include biotechnology, nanotechnology, IT, intelligent
transportation
> systems, alternative fuels, and the global marketplace in general. In each
> case there are deep drivers that conflict with basic human and
environmental
> values. One is the nexus between a value free science and the unlimited
> drive for profit. A second is the disconnect between IT based
communications
> and the direct experience of the body, be it facial expressions, gestures,
> vibes, scent, movement-in-context, and the like. Third, is the isolation
of
> decision-makers via IT, ideology, and the way policy choices are developed
> from the lived experience of these policies--a homeless person, killing on
> the battle field and the wounded soldier or citizen, the last butterfly.
> Fourth, the creation of cyborgs and Chimeras without a careful
investigation
> of what this means in terms of self, animal nature, Gaia, etc. Fifth, the
> emergence of a new, very privileged, very rich elder-aristocracy that
> controls immense amounts of wealth and that will live a very long time
using
> cyborg technologies above and various IT related health care monitoring
> extension that include the capacity to control from afar. On the other IT
> side, there are communities wired in such a way that multiple cultures and
> people participate together in urban planning. There is medicine at a
> distance. These efforts REQUIRE free technohippies to interpret the
> limitations of like how GIS can be biased in such a way as not to show
> indian grave yards under proposed sky scrappers. Technohippies can
identify
> the ethical and moral limits, design webs that are grounded in the knowing
> of what is cut-off and what is brought forward. They can insist on
> face-to-face meetings and rolling in the grass. All of these issues have
> been investigated by science fiction, often very poorly but still
> interestingly.
>
> Okay, what about your group. First, you live in an environment that is
> suffused with artists, poets, environmentalists, indians and others as
well
> as national laboratory scientists, your private sector guys, the Santa Fe
> Institute... Why not identify some of the most interesting intersects
> above--chimera, cyborgs--and pull together some hands on immediate, body
> oriented explorations of what it feels like via touch, emotions, vision,
> sound. Explore this new terrain very directly. Identify what is lost and
> what is gained. How about this virtual reality, what does it taste like
and

> how does it extend into us with what shaping affects? Visualization is
> abstraction by definition. What is abstracted in and what out? The French
> philosopher Bodreard gave this a lot of thought as did other post moderns
> and their inheritors.
>
> Finally, there what Ginsberg called the search for the connection to the
> starry dynamo in the machinery of night. The real vision quest thing.
> Check out Alex Gray's work on the net. In my opinion, it was the serious
> effort to blow up the worn out, corrupted visionary roots of America by a
> direct investigation of what it means to be human that really scared the
> crap out of the powers that be--even now. And we turned to native
> Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, sex, and other means in an attempt to REALLY
> find out what's what. It was kinda crude and ended up in really bad

places
> for many (I recall coming back from the Peace Corps and walking the Haight
> to see a guys and gals laying on the street out of their mind on
speed....).
> This vision quest is not over. There are many guides who have found
things
> as well as the ancients still here who can help out.
>
> Here are some interesting links. From the Urban Dictionary: technohippy
34
> up, 2 down
>
> 1. a computer nerd with hippy ideals
>
> 2. there are cyberpunks and script kiddies, but technohippies are a breed
of
> their own. they are not malicious, but only interested in the way things
> work. usually not the "l33test", (in terms of knowledge of a specific
area),
> but they have a broad wisdom of many different technologies. the favored
> music of the technohippy consists of (but is not limited to): post-rock,
> electronica, ambience, eccentric cultural music, and any other obscure
> music. technohippies are often very philosophical, but are open to new
ideas
> (as long as they are somewhat intelligent). ignorance and hatred is looked
> down upon by the technohippy, and some may even be a bit cynical. all in
> all, a technohippy is a philosophically-open eccentric geek.
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=technohippy some links
here

> too.
>
> Kung Fu Technohippies Kicking Some Ass http://betterdonkey.org/node/524
>
> Also, http://billyjoemills.blogspot.com/2006/03/rebellion-of-nerds.html
>
> And then there's the technohippy band.
>
>
>
> Gus
>
>
> Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> President and Principal
> Time Structures, Inc.
> 1545 University Ave.
> Sacramento, CA 95825
> 916-564-8683, Fax: 916-564-7895
> Cell: 916-716-1740
> www.timestructures.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On

Behalf
> Of Stephen Guerin
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:23 PM
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
>
> Gus,
>
> As I was reading through the full Port Huron statement at
> http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111hur.html I was thinking,
hmm,
> maybe if we actually developed some of the distributed net tools we've
been
> talking about it could help. But then I cam across this passage near the
> end:
>
> "Loneliness, estrangement, isolation describe the vast distance between
man

> and man today. These dominant tendencies cannot be overcome by better
> personnel management, nor by improved gadgets, but only when a love of man
> overcomes the idolatrous worship of things by man."
>
> So I thought, ah, technology may not help...it's a bigger problem.
>
> Then you write:
> > There were even technohippies that believed that the new computers
> > could really form a basis for communications and analysis--and this
> > was pre-internet.
>
> This made me think that maybe there is a technological angle...
>
> In your opinion, where's the leverage for a group like ours? Is it what we
> can offer in technological / ideological realm, or is it local political
> action?
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gus Koehler [mailto:rhythm3 at earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:59 PM
> > To: stephen.guerin at redfish.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
> > Coffee Group'
> > Subject: RE: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >
> >
> > Lets see, patriot act,
> > citizen phone taps without knowledge, bank taps without knowledge,
> > Bush manipulation of fear by terror buggy man, electronic voting
> > subversion resulting from subversion of two presidential elections,
> > "privacy get over it" as the creed of the internet and of all the new
> > video, voice, body fluid MEMS sensors that feed into it, world
> > domination by US navy that controls the seas, air and land preferably
> > with autonomous killer robots (none of our men on the battle field),
> > torture as an acceptable activity without shame for a greater good
> > like the Spanish Inquisition but no saving in an American heaven and
> > supported by our president, pictures of our soldiers in coffins
> > forbidden to be taken, no count of the number of Iraqis or Afghanis
> > killed, loss of most Americans of a retirement, of health care when
> > they are old, and loading up with extreme debt, students graduating
> > from college so in debt that all they can do is work for the man, VA
> > that can't figure out after 4 years that head injuries will be a
> > problem and that urban warfare screws with people's heads, movie
> > marquis that trumpet the most horrible tortures and attacks on women,
> > the disappearance of a black led movement for freedom and dignity
> > replaced with woes and gangsta rap belittle the life and voice of
> > their own people a future dominated by the destruction of our sea side
> > cities, heat waves, death of 30 percent of the world's species, Africa
> > and the poor sent to suffering the most, diseases out of the cut down
> > rainforests that we never expected to emerge because people eat bush
> > meat, a plague that is global and is cutting the foundations out of
> > African societies.....
> >
> > These are all things that the Port Heuron Statement could not
> > anticipate but saw the foundations emerging for.
> > Santa Fe probably won't be much of a place to live in 30 years and
> > neither will Sacramento.
> >
> > I remember the Port Heruon Statement well having been a member of the
> > SDS.
> > We, for a short while, saw the beast naked and what it could do. We
> > even had a vision of wholeness of what men and women could become.
> > Read the rest of the statement.
> >
> > There were even technohippies that believed that the new computers
> > could really form a basis for communications and analysis--and this
> > was pre-internet.
> >
> > I think the big difference is how subtle all of this has come about
> > without the direct intervention of 1984 like social structures, even
> > right in our faces.
> >
> > At least we could see our soldiers being wounded, sent home in boxes,
> > and watch the people suffer on fire with napalm or being shot in
> > ditches whom we were killing so effectively.
> >
> > In my view the vision came true and we are even more asleep than we
> > know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> > President and Principal
> > Time Structures, Inc.
> > 1545 University Ave.
> > Sacramento, CA 95825
> > 916-564-8683, Fax: 916-564-7895
> > Cell: 916-716-1740
> > www.timestructures.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:22 PM
> > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >
> > > Does anyone remember the Port Huron Statement? I'm
> > reaching here, and
> > > I don't remember the date. Hell, most of you probably weren't even
> > > BORN yet!
> >
> > I cheated with Google and still didn't know who it was. Yep,
> > 6 years before I even saw light.
> >
> > Thankfully, things have turned out nothing like what was described
> > there ;-)
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:32:06 -0600
> From: "alex strauss" <alex-strauss at manifest-reality.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <mailman.6.1176480020.1848.friam_redfish.com at redfish.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> >This vision quest is not over.
> It's never over.
>
> Back to rolling in the grass and looking for my new cyborg body.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On

Behalf
> Of Gus Koehler
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:22 AM
> To: stephen.guerin at redfish.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
> Coffee Group'
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
>
> Steve:
>
> Actually, your question is really hard. I have been involved in tracing
the
> significant issues--economic, political, ethical,
philosophical--associated
> with the emergence of various advanced technologies here in California.
> These include biotechnology, nanotechnology, IT, intelligent
transportation
> systems, alternative fuels, and the global marketplace in general. In each
> case there are deep drivers that conflict with basic human and
environmental
> values. One is the nexus between a value free science and the unlimited
> drive for profit. A second is the disconnect between IT based
communications
> and the direct experience of the body, be it facial expressions, gestures,
> vibes, scent, movement-in-context, and the like. Third, is the isolation
of
> decision-makers via IT, ideology, and the way policy choices are developed
> from the lived experience of these policies--a homeless person, killing on
> the battle field and the wounded soldier or citizen, the last butterfly.
> Fourth, the creation of cyborgs and Chimeras without a careful
investigation
> of what this means in terms of self, animal nature, Gaia, etc. Fifth, the
> emergence of a new, very privileged, very rich elder-aristocracy that
> controls immense amounts of wealth and that will live a very long time
using
> cyborg technologies above and various IT related health care monitoring
> extension that include the capacity to control from afar. On the other IT
> side, there are communities wired in such a way that multiple cultures and
> people participate together in urban planning. There is medicine at a
> distance. These efforts REQUIRE free technohippies to interpret the
> limitations of like how GIS can be biased in such a way as not to show
> indian grave yards under proposed sky scrappers. Technohippies can
identify
> the ethical and moral limits, design webs that are grounded in the knowing
> of what is cut-off and what is brought forward. They can insist on
> face-to-face meetings and rolling in the grass. All of these issues have
> been investigated by science fiction, often very poorly but still
> interestingly.
>
> Okay, what about your group. First, you live in an environment that is
> suffused with artists, poets, environmentalists, indians and others as
well
> as national laboratory scientists, your private sector guys, the Santa Fe
> Institute... Why not identify some of the most interesting intersects
> above--chimera, cyborgs--and pull together some hands on immediate, body
> oriented explorations of what it feels like via touch, emotions, vision,
> sound. Explore this new terrain very directly. Identify what is lost and
> what is gained. How about this virtual reality, what does it taste like
and

> and man today. These dominant tendencies cannot be overcome by better
> personnel management, nor by improved gadgets, but only when a love of man
> overcomes the idolatrous worship of things by man."
>
> So I thought, ah, technology may not help...it's a bigger problem.
>
> Then you write:
> > There were even technohippies that believed that the new computers
> > could really form a basis for communications and analysis--and this
> > was pre-internet.
>
> This made me think that maybe there is a technological angle...
>
> In your opinion, where's the leverage for a group like ours? Is it what we
> can offer in technological / ideological realm, or is it local political
> action?
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gus Koehler [mailto:rhythm3 at earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:59 PM
> > To: stephen.guerin at redfish.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
> > Coffee Group'
> > Subject: RE: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >
> >
> > Lets see, patriot act,
> > citizen phone taps without knowledge, bank taps without knowledge,
> > Bush manipulation of fear by terror buggy man, electronic voting
> > subversion resulting from subversion of two presidential elections,
> > "privacy get over it" as the creed of the internet and of all the new
> > video, voice, body fluid MEMS sensors that feed into it, world
> > domination by US navy that controls the seas, air and land preferably
> > with autonomous killer robots (none of our men on the battle field),
> > torture as an acceptable activity without shame for a greater good
> > like the Spanish Inquisition but no saving in an American heaven and
> > supported by our president, pictures of our soldiers in coffins
> > forbidden to be taken, no count of the number of Iraqis or Afghanis
> > killed, loss of most Americans of a retirement, of health care when
> > they are old, and loading up with extreme debt, students graduating
> > from college so in debt that all they can do is work for the man, VA
> > that can't figure out after 4 years that head injuries will be a
> > problem and that urban warfare screws with people's heads, movie
> > marquis that trumpet the most horrible tortures and attacks on women,
> > the disappearance of a black led movement for freedom and dignity
> > replaced with woes and gangsta rap belittle the life and voice of
> > their own people a future dominated by the destruction of our sea side
> > cities, heat waves, death of 30 percent of the world's species, Africa
> > and the poor sent to suffering the most, diseases out of the cut down
> > rainforests that we never expected to emerge because people eat bush
> > meat, a plague that is global and is cutting the foundations out of
> > African societies.....
> >
> > These are all things that the Port Heuron Statement could not
> > anticipate but saw the foundations emerging for.
> > Santa Fe probably won't be much of a place to live in 30 years and
> > neither will Sacramento.
> >
> > I remember the Port Heruon Statement well having been a member of the
> > SDS.
> > We, for a short while, saw the beast naked and what it could do. We
> > even had a vision of wholeness of what men and women could become.
> > Read the rest of the statement.
> >
> > There were even technohippies that believed that the new computers
> > could really form a basis for communications and analysis--and this
> > was pre-internet.
> >
> > I think the big difference is how subtle all of this has come about
> > without the direct intervention of 1984 like social structures, even
> > right in our faces.
> >
> > At least we could see our soldiers being wounded, sent home in boxes,
> > and watch the people suffer on fire with napalm or being shot in
> > ditches whom we were killing so effectively.
> >
> > In my view the vision came true and we are even more asleep than we
> > know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> > President and Principal
> > Time Structures, Inc.
> > 1545 University Ave.
> > Sacramento, CA 95825
> > 916-564-8683, Fax: 916-564-7895
> > Cell: 916-716-1740
> > www.timestructures.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:22 PM
> > To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >
> > > Does anyone remember the Port Huron Statement? I'm
> > reaching here, and
> > > I don't remember the date. Hell, most of you probably weren't even
> > > BORN yet!
> >
> > I cheated with Google and still didn't know who it was. Yep,
> > 6 years before I even saw light.
> >
> > Thankfully, things have turned out nothing like what was described
> > there ;-)
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives,
> unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:55:43 -0600
> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <461E729F.2010809 at snoutfarm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Gus Koehler wrote:
> > Technohippies can identify
> > the ethical and moral limits, design webs that are grounded in the

knowing

> > of what is cut-off and what is brought forward. They can insist on
> > face-to-face meetings and rolling in the grass.
> alex strauss wrote:
> > Back to rolling in the grass and looking for my new cyborg body.
> >
> More meetings?! The grass gives me hives! (Luckily there's little
> if any here anyway.)
> Lots of rocks and sand to roll in though, that might build character...
>
> --
> Brian: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME,
> you don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for yourselves!
> You're ALL individuals!
> The Crowd (in unison): Yes! We're all individuals!
> Brian: You're all different!
> The Crowd (in unison): Yes, we ARE all different!
> Man in Crowd: I'm not...
> The Crowd: Shhh!
> Monty Python's Life of Brian
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:18:34 -0700
> From: "David Breecker" <David at BreeckerAssociates.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: <stephen.guerin at redfish.com>, "The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group" <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <006e01c77d37$646bd410$0200a8c0 at power>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Steve, this is an interesting question, and since it falls in some ways
> within my domain (i.e., organizational structure and planning) I'll offer

a
> couple of suggestions:
>
> Since Friam doesn't have (to the best of my knowledge) an explicit social
> impact goal or mission, I think it would be difficult to enlist it in
this
> type of action. On the other hand, a generic "political action" group
seems
> to broad and diffuse.
>
> So we might consider a subset that wants to focus on this area (Monam,
> anyone?), and as Gus points out, utilize the notable assets and resources
we
> have here in NM and Santa Fe. I'll join. And I know Merle is listening
;-)
>
> I'll also mention that I developed a concept paper for "The Center for
> Social Enterprise Technology" last year, which is designed to work in
> exactly this way. If anyone is interested in seeing the CSET paper, let
me

> know at David at BreeckerAssociates.com
>
> Hope this is useful,
> David
>
> dba | David Breecker Associates, Inc.
> www.BreeckerAssociates.com
> Abiquiu: 505-685-4891
> Santa Fe: 505-690-2335
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Guerin" <stephen.guerin at redfish.com>
> To: <friam at redfish.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
>
>
> > Gus,
> >
> > As I was reading through the full Port Huron statement at
> > http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111hur.html I was thinking,
> > hmm,
> > maybe if we actually developed some of the distributed net tools we've
> > been
> > talking about it could help. But then I cam across this passage near

the
> > end:
> >
> > "Loneliness, estrangement, isolation describe the vast distance between
> > man and
> > man today. These dominant tendencies cannot be overcome by better
> > personnel
> > management, nor by improved gadgets, but only when a love of man
overcomes

> > the
> > idolatrous worship of things by man."
> >
> > So I thought, ah, technology may not help...it's a bigger problem.
> >
> > Then you write:
> >> There were even technohippies that believed that the new
> >> computers could really form a basis for communications and
> >> analysis--and this was pre-internet.
> >
> > This made me think that maybe there is a technological angle...
> >
> > In your opinion, where's the leverage for a group like ours? Is it what

> > can
> > offer in technological / ideological realm, or is it local political
> > action?
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gus Koehler [mailto:rhythm3 at earthlink.net]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:59 PM
> >> To: stephen.guerin at redfish.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied
> >> Complexity Coffee Group'
> >> Subject: RE: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >>
> >>
> >> Lets see, patriot act,
> >> citizen phone taps without knowledge, bank taps without
> >> knowledge, Bush manipulation of fear by terror buggy man,
> >> electronic voting subversion resulting from subversion of two
> >> presidential elections, "privacy get over it" as the creed of
> >> the internet and of all the new video, voice, body fluid MEMS
> >> sensors that feed into it, world domination by US navy that
> >> controls the seas, air and land preferably with autonomous
> >> killer robots (none of our men on the battle field), torture
> >> as an acceptable activity without shame for a greater good
> >> like the Spanish Inquisition but no saving in an American
> >> heaven and supported by our president, pictures of our
> >> soldiers in coffins forbidden to be taken, no count of the
> >> number of Iraqis or Afghanis killed, loss of most Americans
> >> of a retirement, of health care when they are old, and
> >> loading up with extreme debt, students graduating from
> >> college so in debt that all they can do is work for the man,
> >> VA that can't figure out after 4 years that head injuries
> >> will be a problem and that urban warfare screws with people's
> >> heads, movie marquis that trumpet the most horrible tortures
> >> and attacks on women, the disappearance of a black led
> >> movement for freedom and dignity replaced with woes and
> >> gangsta rap belittle the life and voice of their own people a
> >> future dominated by the destruction of our sea side cities,
> >> heat waves, death of 30 percent of the world's species,
> >> Africa and the poor sent to suffering the most, diseases out
> >> of the cut down rainforests that we never expected to emerge
> >> because people eat bush meat, a plague that is global and is
> >> cutting the foundations out of African societies.....
> >>
> >> These are all things that the Port Heuron Statement could not
> >> anticipate but saw the foundations emerging for.
> >> Santa Fe probably won't be much of a place to live in 30
> >> years and neither will Sacramento.
> >>
> >> I remember the Port Heruon Statement well having been a
> >> member of the SDS.
> >> We, for a short while, saw the beast naked and what it could
> >> do. We even had a vision of wholeness of what men and women
> >> could become. Read the rest of the statement.
> >>
> >> There were even technohippies that believed that the new
> >> computers could really form a basis for communications and
> >> analysis--and this was pre-internet.
> >>
> >> I think the big difference is how subtle all of this has come
> >> about without the direct intervention of 1984 like social
> >> structures, even right in our faces.
> >>
> >> At least we could see our soldiers being wounded, sent home
> >> in boxes, and watch the people suffer on fire with napalm or
> >> being shot in ditches whom we were killing so effectively.
> >>
> >> In my view the vision came true and we are even more asleep
> >> than we know.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> >> President and Principal
> >> Time Structures, Inc.
> >> 1545 University Ave.
> >> Sacramento, CA 95825
> >> 916-564-8683, Fax: 916-564-7895
> >> Cell: 916-716-1740
> >> www.timestructures.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> >> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:22 PM
> >> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >>
> >> > Does anyone remember the Port Huron Statement? I'm
> >> reaching here, and
> >> > I don't remember the date. Hell, most of you probably weren't even
> >> > BORN yet!
> >>
> >> I cheated with Google and still didn't know who it was. Yep,
> >> 6 years before I even saw light.
> >>
> >> Thankfully, things have turned out nothing like what was
> >> described there ;-)
> >>
> >> -Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:20:05 -0600
> From: "jpgirard" <jpgirard at thinkingmetal.com>
> Subject: [FRIAM] Political discussion tonight. WAS: Re: Can you guess
> the source.
> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <FBEIKGCCFOMAJHNJJLGLEEMDCLAA.jpgirard at thinkingmetal.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I can't think of a better time to bring this up (thanks for the timely

topic
> Nick).
>
> It just so happens that the monthly meeting of our local (ie: Santa Fe)
> political discussion salon is tonight.
>
> Our chapter is one of about 200 across the U.S. (so most can participate
if

> they want).
>
> Info on all the chapters is at: http://www.drinkingliberally.org/
> (just click on "Santa Fe" to see directions/times to the local meeting
> tonight)
>
> Hmmmm. How would a FRIAM-er define political anarchy?
>
>
>
> cheers,
> Jim
>
>
>
> James Girard
> Complexity Engineer
> Thinking Metal LLC
> jpgirard at thinkingmetal.com
> 505 983 6333
> 505 670 1060 (cell)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com]On
> > Behalf Of Marcus G. Daniels
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:27 AM
> > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >
> >
> >
> > > "Loneliness, estrangement, isolation describe the vast distance
> > between man and
> > > man today. These dominant tendencies cannot be overcome by
> > better personnel
> > > management, nor by improved gadgets, but only when a love of
> > man overcomes the
> > > idolatrous worship of things by man."
> > >
> > Oddly enough, there's some overlap with the writings of this guy:
> >
> > http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=IDSearch&
> needingMoreList=false&IDType=IRN&IDNumber=04475-046
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:49:00 -0600
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: "David Mirly" <mirly at comcast.net>, "The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group" <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <380-22007441221490808 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> David,
>
> Sorry to be so slow to respond. Your note got lost in the spam buffer.
>
> You are wrong, but interestingly wrong. I wonder how much of Ted's stuff

I would sign on to me if presented to me in the way I presented this
passage to you.
>
> I can promise you it's NOT from MEIN KAMPF either.
>
> NIck
>
> By the way, "A scholar who does not make a fool of himself at least once
a day should be fired for not doing his job." -- N. S. Thompson
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Mirly
> To: nickthompson at earthlink.net;The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group

> Sent: 4/11/2007 7:28:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
>
>
> I'll play.
>
>
> Theodore Kaczynski?
>
>
> Now I have to go see if I am right. It's scary playing this game and

quite possibly making a fool of oneself.

>
>
>
>
> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I am curious to know if anybody in Friam-land will recognize the

following passage. No Fair using google.
>
> It is NOT from the Gettysburg Address.
>
> "Our work is guided by the sense that we may be the last generation in
the experiment with living. But we are a minority--the vast majority of our
people regard the temporary equilibriums of our society and world as
eternally functional parts. In this is perhaps the outstanding paradox; we
ourselves are imbued with urgency, yet the message of our society is that
there is no viable alternative to the present. Beneath the reassuring tones
of the politicians, beneath the common opinion that America will "muddle
through," beneath the stagnation of those who have closed their minds to
the future, is the pervading feeling that there simply are no alternatives,
that our times have witnessed the exhaustion not only of Utopias, but of
any new departures as well. Feeling the press of complexity upon the
emptiness of life, people are fearful of the thought that at any moment
things might be thrust out of control. They fear change itself, since
change might smash whatever invisible framework seems to hold back chaos
for them now. For most Americans, all crusades are suspect, threatening.
The fact that each individual sees apathy in his fellows perpetuates the
common reluctance to organize for change. The dominant institutions are
complex enough to blunt the minds of their potential critics, and
entrenched enough to swiftly dissipate or entirely repel the energies of
protest and reform, thus limiting human expectancies. Then, too, we are a
materially improved society, and by our own improvements we seem to have
weakened the case for further change."
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Research Associate, Redfish Group, Santa Fe, NM (nick at redfish.com)
> Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University
(nthompson at clarku.edu)

>
>
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:54:55 -0400
> From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: <stephen.guerin at redfish.com>, "'The Friday Morning Applied
> Complexity Coffee Group'" <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <006c01c77d66$5abc6220$2f01a8c0 at SavyII>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Steve,
>
> Something that has my sustainable design friends pulling their hair out
> now is the evidence that it's a mistake to think you can win the war
> against resource consumption growth just using efficiency. DOE figures
> show world energy efficiency doubling (cutting energy/$ in half)
> nominally every 40 years, while the economies are doubling $ every 20
> years. http://www.synapse9.com/Growth&Efficiency.jpg
>
>
> That kind of subject is a little outside the normal range of scientific
> questions. At the time of the founding of SFI, though I was just a
> curious neighbor at the time, there seemed a sense of mission in
> widening the range of scientific questions. I think that's still
> relevant. That's why I've been hanging around anyway.
>
>
> Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> NY NY 10040
> tel: 212-795-4844
> e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> explorations: www.synapse9.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:23 AM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >
> >
> > Gus,
> >
> > As I was reading through the full Port Huron statement at
> > http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111hur.html I was
> > thinking, hmm, maybe if we actually developed some of the
> > distributed net tools we've been talking about it could help.
> > But then I cam across this passage near the end:
> >
> > "Loneliness, estrangement, isolation describe the vast
> > distance between man and man today. These dominant tendencies
> > cannot be overcome by better personnel management, nor by
> > improved gadgets, but only when a love of man overcomes the
> > idolatrous worship of things by man."
> >
> > So I thought, ah, technology may not help...it's a bigger problem.
> >
> > Then you write:
> > > There were even technohippies that believed that the new
> > > computers could really form a basis for communications and
> > > analysis--and this was pre-internet.
> >
> > This made me think that maybe there is a technological angle...
> >
> > In your opinion, where's the leverage for a group like ours?
> > Is it what we can offer in technological / ideological realm,
> > or is it local political action?
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:33:34 -0600
> From: "Marcus G. Daniels" <marcus at snoutfarm.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <461EDDEE.4060604 at snoutfarm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Phil Henshaw wrote:
> > Something that has my sustainable design friends pulling their hair out
> > now is the evidence that it's a mistake to think you can win the war
> > against resource consumption growth just using efficiency. DOE figures
> > show world energy efficiency doubling (cutting energy/$ in half)
> > nominally every 40 years, while the economies are doubling $ every 20
> > years. http://www.synapse9.com/Growth&Efficiency.jpg
> >
> Need more research! Some good slides here:
>
> http://t8web.lanl.gov/t8/people/rajan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:35:47 -0600
> From: Michael Agar <magar at anth.umd.edu>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <9B44BE6D-3545-4D54-B059-D060BCA9574B at anth.umd.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Hi Gus. Pretty good roll you got on there (: And I agree, Steve's
> question is hard.
>
> Here's another take on it that I don't think anyone mentioned so far.
>
> The field of science and technology studies is interesting here.
> There's a wiki entry under that name, though they don't mention Bruno
> Latour, one of the pioneers that ethnos like because of his
> foundational ethnography of lab science. STS, as they call it, was
> part of the stream that fed Xerox PARC and John Seely Brown's book
> The Social Life of Information, which got some FRIAM air time a while
> back.
>
> I don't know the field really. Last exposure was to a few researchers
> at LANL years back, who were using it. One take on it is that the
> technology/human question is handled by viewing the technology as
> another actor in a situation and looking on the ground at how this
> new "character" affects the story. So some of the early Xerox PARC
> work showed that assuming that a new piece of office technology would
> replace the former socially organized work flow was wrong. Instead,
> it was integrated into it. So then one interesting question is, did
> the social organization of work really change? And what do you mean
> by "change?" Maybe, maybe not, maybe in a simple way, maybe in a
> fundamental way, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, maybe
> both. That's why the question is hard.
>
> So for instance the early WTO protests in Seattle and the Zapatistas
> were said by media to be a new wave of political organization thanks
> to tech. I dunno, they used tech to their advantage, no question.
> Maybe it was more bottom-up? Or was the bottom-up just quicker and
> more visible?
>
> Lots of new tech crime out there, like identity theft. Is that a
> change, or is tech just a new criminal accomplice in an old story?
> Any fans of The Wire, the HBO show about cops and drugs in Baltimore,
> know that the rapid diffusion of the newly available throw away cell
> phones added a major new character to the story.
>
> According to the recent documentary whose title I can't remember
> right now, the Republicans stole the 2004 election using tech tricks.
> Is that adapting a new tech actor to an old story or is it a new
> story? I grew up in the original Mayor Daley's Chicago, where the
> joke was, "Vote early...and often." There's an argument that JFK won
> thanks to Cook County which put Illinois in his column.
>
> Then there's the argument about the kids now, that the shift to
> MySpace and IM and games and all that has changed the fundamental
> nature of human communication. Looking back there's no question that
> the invention of writing had a profound social impact. Maybe this new
> tech actor is clearly in the column where technology across a
> variety of generation-specific situations is in fact changing the
> story in fundamental ways, but the jury is still out I think.
>
> At any rate, STS suggests taking the question to the ground, a lot of
> grounds, expecting a lot of variation, and looking at tech/society
> dialectic over time in a variety of specific cases. Since the work
> includes tech as a protagonist in the story, and since the stories
> themselves will be in the tradition of complex adaptive systems,
> FRIAM is a good place for such conversations to take place. But the
> overall project itself is a monster. Maybe STS has gone a long way
> already.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 12, 2007, at 10:22 AM, Gus Koehler wrote:
>
> > Steve:
> >
> > Actually, your question is really hard. I have been involved in
> > tracing the
> > significant issues--economic, political, ethical, philosophical--
> > associated
> > with the emergence of various advanced technologies here in
> > California.
> > These include biotechnology, nanotechnology, IT, intelligent
> > transportation
> > systems, alternative fuels, and the global marketplace in general.
> > In each
> > case there are deep drivers that conflict with basic human and
> > environmental
> > values. One is the nexus between a value free science and the
> > unlimited
> > drive for profit. A second is the disconnect between IT based
> > communications
> > and the direct experience of the body, be it facial expressions,
> > gestures,
> > vibes, scent, movement-in-context, and the like. Third, is the
> > isolation of
> > decision-makers via IT, ideology, and the way policy choices are
> > developed
> > from the lived experience of these policies--a homeless person,
> > killing on
> > the battle field and the wounded soldier or citizen, the last
> > butterfly.
> > Fourth, the creation of cyborgs and Chimeras without a careful
> > investigation
> > of what this means in terms of self, animal nature, Gaia, etc.
> > Fifth, the
> > emergence of a new, very privileged, very rich elder-aristocracy that
> > controls immense amounts of wealth and that will live a very long
> > time using
> > cyborg technologies above and various IT related health care
> > monitoring
> > extension that include the capacity to control from afar. On the
> > other IT
> > side, there are communities wired in such a way that multiple
> > cultures and
> > people participate together in urban planning. There is medicine at a
> > distance. These efforts REQUIRE free technohippies to interpret the
> > limitations of like how GIS can be biased in such a way as not to show
> > indian grave yards under proposed sky scrappers. Technohippies can
> > identify
> > the ethical and moral limits, design webs that are grounded in the
> > knowing
> > of what is cut-off and what is brought forward. They can insist on
> > face-to-face meetings and rolling in the grass. All of these
> > issues have
> > been investigated by science fiction, often very poorly but still
> > interestingly.
> >
> > Okay, what about your group. First, you live in an environment
> > that is
> > suffused with artists, poets, environmentalists, indians and others
> > as well
> > as national laboratory scientists, your private sector guys, the
> > Santa Fe
> > Institute... Why not identify some of the most interesting intersects
> > above--chimera, cyborgs--and pull together some hands on immediate,
> > body
> > oriented explorations of what it feels like via touch, emotions,
> > vision,
> > sound. Explore this new terrain very directly. Identify what is
> > lost and
> > what is gained. How about this virtual reality, what does it taste
> > like and
> > how does it extend into us with what shaping affects?
> > Visualization is
> > abstraction by definition. What is abstracted in and what out? The
> > French
> > philosopher Bodreard gave this a lot of thought as did other post
> > moderns
> > and their inheritors.
> >
> > Finally, there what Ginsberg called the search for the connection
> > to the
> > starry dynamo in the machinery of night. The real vision quest thing.
> > Check out Alex Gray's work on the net. In my opinion, it was the
> > serious
> > effort to blow up the worn out, corrupted visionary roots of
> > America by a
> > direct investigation of what it means to be human that really
> > scared the
> > crap out of the powers that be--even now. And we turned to native
> > Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, sex, and other means in an attempt to
> > REALLY
> > find out what's what. It was kinda crude and ended up in really
> > bad places
> > for many (I recall coming back from the Peace Corps and walking the
> > Haight
> > to see a guys and gals laying on the street out of their mind on
> > speed....).
> > This vision quest is not over. There are many guides who have
> > found things
> > as well as the ancients still here who can help out.
> >
> > Here are some interesting links. From the Urban Dictionary:
> > technohippy 34
> > up, 2 down
> >
> > 1. a computer nerd with hippy ideals
> >
> > 2. there are cyberpunks and script kiddies, but technohippies are a
> > breed of
> > their own. they are not malicious, but only interested in the way
> > things
> > work. usually not the "l33test", (in terms of knowledge of a
> > specific area),
> > but they have a broad wisdom of many different technologies. the
> > favored
> > music of the technohippy consists of (but is not limited to): post-
> > rock,
> > electronica, ambience, eccentric cultural music, and any other obscure
> > music. technohippies are often very philosophical, but are open to
> > new ideas
> > (as long as they are somewhat intelligent). ignorance and hatred is
> > looked
> > down upon by the technohippy, and some may even be a bit cynical.
> > all in
> > all, a technohippy is a philosophically-open eccentric geek.
> > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=technohippy some
> > links here
> > too.
> >
> > Kung Fu Technohippies Kicking Some Ass http://betterdonkey.org/node/
> > 524
> >
> > Also, http://billyjoemills.blogspot.com/2006/03/rebellion-of-
> > nerds.html
> >
> > And then there's the technohippy band.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gus
> >
> >
> > Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> > President and Principal
> > Time Structures, Inc.
> > 1545 University Ave.
> > Sacramento, CA 95825
> > 916-564-8683, Fax: 916-564-7895
> > Cell: 916-716-1740
> > www.timestructures.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com]
> > On Behalf
> > Of Stephen Guerin
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:23 PM
> > To: friam at redfish.com
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >
> > Gus,
> >
> > As I was reading through the full Port Huron statement at
> > http://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111hur.html I was
> > thinking, hmm,
> > maybe if we actually developed some of the distributed net tools
> > we've been
> > talking about it could help. But then I cam across this passage
> > near the
> > end:
> >
> > "Loneliness, estrangement, isolation describe the vast distance
> > between man
> > and man today. These dominant tendencies cannot be overcome by better
> > personnel management, nor by improved gadgets, but only when a love
> > of man
> > overcomes the idolatrous worship of things by man."
> >
> > So I thought, ah, technology may not help...it's a bigger problem.
> >
> > Then you write:
> >> There were even technohippies that believed that the new computers
> >> could really form a basis for communications and analysis--and this
> >> was pre-internet.
> >
> > This made me think that maybe there is a technological angle...
> >
> > In your opinion, where's the leverage for a group like ours? Is it
> > what we
> > can offer in technological / ideological realm, or is it local
> > political
> > action?
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Gus Koehler [mailto:rhythm3 at earthlink.net]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 9:59 PM
> >> To: stephen.guerin at redfish.com; 'The Friday Morning Applied
> >> Complexity
> >> Coffee Group'
> >> Subject: RE: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >>
> >>
> >> Lets see, patriot act,
> >> citizen phone taps without knowledge, bank taps without knowledge,
> >> Bush manipulation of fear by terror buggy man, electronic voting
> >> subversion resulting from subversion of two presidential elections,
> >> "privacy get over it" as the creed of the internet and of all the new
> >> video, voice, body fluid MEMS sensors that feed into it, world
> >> domination by US navy that controls the seas, air and land preferably
> >> with autonomous killer robots (none of our men on the battle field),
> >> torture as an acceptable activity without shame for a greater good
> >> like the Spanish Inquisition but no saving in an American heaven and
> >> supported by our president, pictures of our soldiers in coffins
> >> forbidden to be taken, no count of the number of Iraqis or Afghanis
> >> killed, loss of most Americans of a retirement, of health care when
> >> they are old, and loading up with extreme debt, students graduating
> >> from college so in debt that all they can do is work for the man, VA
> >> that can't figure out after 4 years that head injuries will be a
> >> problem and that urban warfare screws with people's heads, movie
> >> marquis that trumpet the most horrible tortures and attacks on women,
> >> the disappearance of a black led movement for freedom and dignity
> >> replaced with woes and gangsta rap belittle the life and voice of
> >> their own people a future dominated by the destruction of our sea
> >> side
> >> cities, heat waves, death of 30 percent of the world's species,
> >> Africa
> >> and the poor sent to suffering the most, diseases out of the cut down
> >> rainforests that we never expected to emerge because people eat bush
> >> meat, a plague that is global and is cutting the foundations out of
> >> African societies.....
> >>
> >> These are all things that the Port Heuron Statement could not
> >> anticipate but saw the foundations emerging for.
> >> Santa Fe probably won't be much of a place to live in 30 years and
> >> neither will Sacramento.
> >>
> >> I remember the Port Heruon Statement well having been a member of the
> >> SDS.
> >> We, for a short while, saw the beast naked and what it could do. We
> >> even had a vision of wholeness of what men and women could become.
> >> Read the rest of the statement.
> >>
> >> There were even technohippies that believed that the new computers
> >> could really form a basis for communications and analysis--and this
> >> was pre-internet.
> >>
> >> I think the big difference is how subtle all of this has come about
> >> without the direct intervention of 1984 like social structures, even
> >> right in our faces.
> >>
> >> At least we could see our soldiers being wounded, sent home in boxes,
> >> and watch the people suffer on fire with napalm or being shot in
> >> ditches whom we were killing so effectively.
> >>
> >> In my view the vision came true and we are even more asleep than we
> >> know.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gus Koehler, Ph.D.
> >> President and Principal
> >> Time Structures, Inc.
> >> 1545 University Ave.
> >> Sacramento, CA 95825
> >> 916-564-8683, Fax: 916-564-7895
> >> Cell: 916-716-1740
> >> www.timestructures.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> >> [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:22 PM
> >> To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
> >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Can you guess the source.
> >>
> >>> Does anyone remember the Port Huron Statement? I'm
> >> reaching here, and
> >>> I don't remember the date. Hell, most of you probably weren't even
> >>> BORN yet!
> >>
> >> I cheated with Google and still didn't know who it was. Yep,
> >> 6 years before I even saw light.
> >>
> >> Thankfully, things have turned out nothing like what was described
> >> there ;-)
> >>
> >> -Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> > archives,
> > unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of Friam Digest, Vol 46, Issue 13
> *************************************