Friam Digest, Vol 37, Issue 47

[Nick Thompson]

Russell,

One of the first things I intend to do when I have retired in January is
read book with titles like yours, but until then, you will need to wave
excerpts at me or something.  

Do you know anything about the New Realism of the 1910's at Harvard.  A
group of james students wrote a New Realist Manifesto which seems to have
been based on the Scottish Realism.  Those students included Edward Holt,
who spawned jj and ej gibson (of ecological psych fame) and E. C. Tolman,
the inventor of cognitive behaviorism, and ultimately a traitor to the
cause in my opinion.

The basic idea is that reality can be cut in various ways and different
observers SEE different cuts.  All cuts are REAL properties of the object
but also manifestations of the point of view of the observor.  To use terms
I am not real comfortable with, properties of things as seen by people are
both "out there"  AND "in the head" of the observer.

Nick  



Nicholas Thompson
nickthompson at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson


> [Original Message]
> From: Russell Standish <r.standish at unsw.edu.au>
> To: <nickthompson at earthlink.net>; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>

> Date: 7/27/2006 12:16:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 37, Issue 47
>
> Sort of like I say in my paper "The Importance of the Observer in
> Science" you mean? Or in my book "Theory of Nothing".
>
> (Assuming I have correctly grokked your word "intensional").
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 10:40:24AM -0400, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> > Robert Holmes writes,
> >
> > "So if entropy is emergent and gravity is emergent and any other force
> > mediated by a subatomic particle is emergent, just how useful is it to

label
> > something 'emergent' in this way? If the definition of emergence is so
> > broad, how can we usefully use it?"
> >
> > SOOOOOOOOOO, this seems to suggest that emergence is one of those
> > properties which are not brick wallk properties of the world except in
so
> > far as they are seen from a particular point of view.  I.E, intensional
> > properties.  (sorry everybody).  .  But now, like Robert, I am
beginning to

> > wonder if all properties arent intensional.  I mean that was sort of
> > Einstein's point, wasnt it?  I hate it when words I love and concepts I
> > live by suddenly crumble in my hands.
> >
> > Rushing,
> >
> > Nick
> >  
> >
> > Nicholas Thompson
> > nickthompson at earthlink.net
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson
> >
>
> --
> *PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which
> is of type "application/pgp-signature". Don't worry, it is not a
> virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this
> email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you
> may safely ignore this attachment.
>
>

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[Russell Standish]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 12:45:06AM -0400, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Russell,
>
> One of the first things I intend to do when I have retired in January is
> read book with titles like yours, but until then, you will need to wave
> excerpts at me or something.  

That's why the paper might be up your alley. Also Chapter 1 of my book
is also available at
http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks/ToN-chapter1.pdf and is a precis
of the main argument in the book.

>
> Do you know anything about the New Realism of the 1910's at Harvard.  A
> group of james students wrote a New Realist Manifesto which seems to have
> been based on the Scottish Realism.  Those students included Edward Holt,
> who spawned jj and ej gibson (of ecological psych fame) and E. C. Tolman,
> the inventor of cognitive behaviorism, and ultimately a traitor to the
> cause in my opinion.
>
> The basic idea is that reality can be cut in various ways and different
> observers SEE different cuts.  All cuts are REAL properties of the object
> but also manifestations of the point of view of the observor.  To use terms
> I am not real comfortable with, properties of things as seen by people are
> both "out there"  AND "in the head" of the observer.

No, I hadn't heard of them, but the basic reasoning you mention sounds
familiar.

Cheers

--
*PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which
is of type "application/pgp-signature". Don't worry, it is not a
virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this
email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you
may safely ignore this attachment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A/Prof Russell Standish                  Phone [phone] (mobile)
Mathematics                               0425 253119 (")
UNSW SYDNEY 2052                 R.Standish at unsw.edu.au            
Australia                                http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks
            International prefix  +612, Interstate prefix 02
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