Friam Digest, Vol 30, Issue 37
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My thought is that we are taking the fight to the Terrorists, and are thus less concerned about them attacking at home. If we were just waiting, waiting, powerless to do anything, I think we would totally freak ourselves out. But I could be wrong. -Mike Oliker > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:59:30 -0700 > From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why I don't live in the UK anymore > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <Friam at redfish.com> > Message-ID: <54EFF7BA-10B5-47BA-ADDE-17676D036D92 at backspaces.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Spooky! > > I have to say I'm completely surprised by the European reaction to > terrorism. As far as I can tell, their measures makes Homeland > Security and all its attendant nonsense seem tame. > > Any insights into why this is so? > [.. other than I'm an idiot and wrong as hell! :) ] > > -- Owen > > Owen Densmore > http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org > > > On Dec 22, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Robert Holmes wrote: > > > Civil liberties? Pah, who needs 'em. > > > > http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at Mission Cafe > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Friam mailing list > Friam at redfish.com > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > End of Friam Digest, Vol 30, Issue 37 > ************************************* > |
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I don't know how "new" the concept of surveillance is to Europeans. For
example, think of how many places in Europe, and Latin American, where you're required to surrender your passport when checking into a hotel. Or, in Central America anyway, everyone is required to carry and present on demand a "cedula," a national ID card. But "taking the fight to the terrorists"? I think not: the Bush Administration is trying to use -- and unsuccessfully so -- a traditional centralized solution for a decentralized condition/problem that appears to be having some success in continually and creatively adapting to changes in its environment. Let us recall that Ben Laden is/was in Afghanistan NOT Iraq. So if he's such a threat, how come the U.S. has actually reduced the number of troops in Afg since the initial incursion post-9/11? Or if there is a logic to this so-called "war against terrorism," how come there is more anti-terrorism money going to Wyoming on a per capita basis than East Coast states with concentrated populations and major air and ocean ports? How come the Pentagon, it was reported in recent days, has proposed to actually reduce the number of troops in the military? How come the National Guard is making up the bulk of the force in Iraq? If there's a real war, how come the administration isn't moving to reinstate the draft and increase taxes to pay for it? All this "war against terrorism" has done is reveal the sweeping incompetence and intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the current administration, which chooses to rely on bombast, political payoffs and faith-instead-of-facts to try and make its case (Johnson said bombastically). -Tom Johnson On 12/22/05, Mike Oliker <mike.oliker at comcast.net> wrote: > > > > My thought is that we are taking the fight to the Terrorists, and are thus > less concerned about them attacking at home. If we were just waiting, > waiting, powerless to do anything, I think we would totally freak > ourselves > out. But I could be wrong. > -Mike Oliker > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:59:30 -0700 > > From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why I don't live in the UK anymore > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > <Friam at redfish.com> > > Message-ID: <54EFF7BA-10B5-47BA-ADDE-17676D036D92 at backspaces.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > > Spooky! > > > > I have to say I'm completely surprised by the European reaction to > > terrorism. As far as I can tell, their measures makes Homeland > > Security and all its attendant nonsense seem tame. > > > > Any insights into why this is so? > > [.. other than I'm an idiot and wrong as hell! :) ] > > > > -- Owen > > > > Owen Densmore > > http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org > > > > > > On Dec 22, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Robert Holmes wrote: > > > > > Civil liberties? Pah, who needs 'em. > > > > > > http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at Mission Cafe > > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Friam mailing list > > Friam at redfish.com > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > > > > End of Friam Digest, Vol 30, Issue 37 > > ************************************* > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at Mission Cafe > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- ============================================== J. T. Johnson Institute for Analytic Journalism www.analyticjournalism.com 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.com "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." -- Buckminster Fuller ============================================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20051222/b05bb219/attachment.htm |
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In reply to this post by Mike Oliker
> My thought is that we are taking the fight to the Terrorists, and are thus
> less concerned about them attacking at home. If we were just waiting, > waiting, powerless to do anything, I think we would totally freak ourselves > out. But I could be wrong. > -Mike Oliker I disagree. Taking the fight to the terrorists would be going after Al Qaeda. Taking the fight to Iraq is going after an arbitrary group of people who have the same racial supertype and speak the same language. If the terrorists were based in Spain, we'd be bombing Argentina. The idea that a retaliatory strike diminshes our concern for the home front would make sense, if we were at war. However, terrorism is not war. Terrorism is violent political protest. We have increased the number of people in the world who are angry with us. We have therefore increased the probability of political protest. Likewise, we have sanctioned the violence of Al Qaeda by responding with violence of our own. We have therefore increased the probability of future political protest taking on a violent character. We should therefore logically be more concerned about the terrorists attacking at home, not less, since we have made it more probable. Kind of off-topic, though. On 12/22/05, Mike Oliker <mike.oliker at comcast.net> wrote: > > > My thought is that we are taking the fight to the Terrorists, and are thus > less concerned about them attacking at home. If we were just waiting, > waiting, powerless to do anything, I think we would totally freak ourselves > out. But I could be wrong. > -Mike Oliker > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:59:30 -0700 > > From: Owen Densmore <owen at backspaces.net> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why I don't live in the UK anymore > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > <Friam at redfish.com> > > Message-ID: <54EFF7BA-10B5-47BA-ADDE-17676D036D92 at backspaces.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > > Spooky! > > > > I have to say I'm completely surprised by the European reaction to > > terrorism. As far as I can tell, their measures makes Homeland > > Security and all its attendant nonsense seem tame. > > > > Any insights into why this is so? > > [.. other than I'm an idiot and wrong as hell! :) ] > > > > -- Owen > > > > Owen Densmore > > http://backspaces.net - http://redfish.com - http://friam.org > > > > > > On Dec 22, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Robert Holmes wrote: > > > > > Civil liberties? Pah, who needs 'em. > > > > > > http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at Mission Cafe > > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Friam mailing list > > Friam at redfish.com > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > > > > End of Friam Digest, Vol 30, Issue 37 > > ************************************* > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at Mission Cafe > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- Giles Bowkett = Giles Goat Boy http://www.gilesgoatboy.org/ |
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