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Nick Thompson

Friam Book

TWIMC,

I am an editor.

Nick

> [Original Message]
> From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> To: <friam at redfish.com>
> Date: 1/14/2007 5:52:32 PM
> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 25
>
> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> friam at redfish.com
>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 24 (Nicholas Thompson)
> 2. The FRIAM (Marko A. Rodriguez)
> 3. Re: 1. fun and sandpiles (Phil Henshaw)
> 4. Re: The FRIAM (Phil Henshaw)
> 5. Re: The FRIAM (J T Johnson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:20:32 -0500
> From: "Nicholas Thompson" <nickthompson at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 24
> To: friam at redfish.com
> Message-ID: <380-220071014182032691 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Phil,
>
> I have kept out of the most recent War of the PolyMaths because i just
> don't have the firepower these days to keep up.
>
> But your last communication poked my fire a bit.
>
> Have you seen either THE PLAUSIBILITY OF LIFE or CATCHING OURSELVES IN THE
> ACT.
>
> The f irst is a must read, because the gain/pain ratio is so high. As for
> the second, the pain is pretty high, so I have been unable as yet whether
> the gain is worth it, but I am pretty sure.
>
> Nick
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> > To: <friam at redfish.com>
> > Date: 1/13/2007 12:00:41 PM
> > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 24
> >
> > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > friam at redfish.com
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > friam-request at redfish.com
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > friam-owner at redfish.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: fun and sandpiles (Phil Henshaw)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:29:14 -0500
> > From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] fun and sandpiles
> > To: <sy at synapse9.com>, "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee
> > Group'" <friam at redfish.com>
> > Message-ID: <001101c73716$d4f78d30$2f01a8c0 at SavyII>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > On thing worth mentioning is the reason it's useful to consider the maze
> > of instrumental behaviors that constitute systems in the context of the
> > whole envelope of their developments (??.?? ? `?.??) from beginning to
> > end. It turns the mystery of complex developmental systems into the
> > puzzle of when and how they'll go through the classic switches and
> > display the key landmarks of doing so.
> >
> > The growth to climax switch is one of the most interesting of them, and
> > of particular concern to systems designed not to allow it, for example.
> > Of course, a major preliminary question once the model is understood, is
> > whether the switches that completely reorient the developmental
> > processes originate from inside or out.
> >
> >
> > Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > >
> > > Sure, there's definitely a point to make that the inactive
> > > presence of potential least energy patterns is frequently
> > > 'the reason' that patterns
> > > form. That might make it seem that offering 'fun' as an alternative
> > > (for the system exploring the options), is well, like it was said for
> > > fun... I also see a much more difficult issue involved.
> > >
> > > There's the significant question to raise about the
> > > difference between abstract causation (which has the end
> > > effect as the cause) and instrumental causation (which has
> > > the process leading there as the cause). The former is a lot
> > > easier, and arguably much more useful since it lets you give
> > > a causal value to abstractions like statistics for
> > > other situations than the one you're actually considering.
> > > The latter
> > > is a horrible nuisance by comparison, because it requires
> > > extensive particular understanding of situations that will
> > > occur only once. Because it's how nature does it, however
> > > (you can watch and see), the latter still seems interesting.
> > >
> > > In tracing instrumental causation there certainly are some
> > > common mistakes to be made, and there's not much of a
> > > developed tradition for guidance, either. What seems the
> > > worst of it is that trying to read instrumental causes
> > > sometimes seems to largely lead modern minds to conspiracy
> > > theory and magical thinking. Still, it gives one to wonder
> > > why people are so very bad at it, and about the examples of
> > > natural system steering where it's navigating the
> > > instrumental causes that clearly seems to be the center of the fun.
> > >
> > >
> > > Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> > > NY NY 10040
> > > tel: 212-795-4844
> > > e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> > > explorations: www.synapse9.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > > > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Trenchard
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:55 AM
> > > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > > Subject: [FRIAM] fun and sandpiles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Phil, and I definitely agree that sandpile
> > > phenomena and play
> > > > phenomena are not mutually exclusive in the domain of complexity.
> > > >
> > > > I think I was only trying to emphasize the point that I
> > > > started my thread
> > > > with a view to specific pattern formations of frigatebirds
> > > > which result from
> > > > some specific rules of interaction. At the risk of
> > > > misinterpretation here
> > > > (and no disrespect intended, if I am misinterpreting), an
> > > > argument was
> > > > presented, it seemed, that there are no reasons for certain
> > > > behaviours other
> > > > than that they are the result of having fun, but the argument
> > > > was made in
> > > > the context of animals that were not necessarily in the
> > > > pattern formations I
> > > > was looking at.
> > > >
> > > > It may very well be that it is fun for frigatebirds to be in these
> > > > formations, but there are, I think, still physical reasons
> > > > why they choose
> > > > those formations - and not other ones - related to the way in
> > > > which they
> > > > couple due to the energy savings that certain formations allow (I
> > > > hypothesize).
> > > >
> > > > Coming back to cyclists who interact, it is certainly
> > > > satisfying when a
> > > > drafting cyclist finds the "sweetspot" in the draft zone,
> > > > where maximal
> > > > drafting benefit is experienced. It also fun and satisfying
> > > > to be part of
> > > > the peloton experience, to have engaged in a series of
> > > > interactions with
> > > > other cyclists that result in emergent pattern formation.
> > > > Even so, the
> > > > pattern formations can be traced primarily to physical
> > > > coupling between
> > > > cyclists, namely the drafting benefit, collision avoidance
> > > > and forward
> > > > motion.
> > > >
> > > > Bicycle racing, is of course, a sport, so it also involves
> > > > strategies and
> > > > directives from leaders, but you can remove those and there
> > > > will still be
> > > > certain types of patterns which will arise by the basic rules
> > > > I've noted
> > > > (I've simulated some by computer, although the results are
> > > > still a bit
> > > > controversial).
> > > >
> > > > In any event, I certainly agree that there is a broad scale
> > > > of complexity,
> > > > since most types of interactions result in some sort of
> > > > emergent phenomena.
> > > > I think, though, that it becomes increasingly difficult to
> > > > identify even
> > > > what the emergent phenomena are when looking at complex
> > > > interactions that
> > > > involve a multitude of factors and rules of interaction, let
> > > > alone isolate
> > > > what the principles of interaction are that lead to the
> > > > emergent phenomena.
> > > > What is the emergent phenomena of birds that are playing, in
> > > > apparently
> > > > random configurations? I'm not suggesting there are any,
> > > they're just
> > > > difficult to see, that's all.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> > > > To: "'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'"
> > > > <friam at redfish.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:34 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Will Rogers and Animal Behavior
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I for one don't think emergent systems study requires
> > > choosing between
> > > > 'sand piles' and animals having 'fun'. Playful
> > > > experimentation is one
> > > > of the all time best natural systems for discovering natural
> > > > structures it seems to me, just a higher level version of
> > > > jumping potential wells like some grain of sand seems bound
> > > > to have done at a critical point to
> > > > get a slide going. The range of complex system phenomena is
> > > > tremendous.
> > > >
> > > > One thing that helps me is that there seem to be various
> > > > scales you can arrange the entire spectrum on, complexity of
> > > > self-regulation for
> > > > example. Thermostats and sand piles are on the simple side
> > > > and animal
> > > > acrobatics on the high side. You don't necessarily have to
> > > > assign a number to things to have a useful scale, of course,
> > > > just have a way to order things and make note of
> > > > uncertainties. That's what the paleontologists do with all
> > > > their species branching diagrams (clad notation). For those
> > > > who like numbers, though, there's the rudimentary numerical
> > > > development scale, the number of doublings a system performs
> > > > in its development. Humans and the world economy thus far
> > > > are about 30
> > > > doublings, for example. Yep, kind of an interestingly compressed
> > > > scale!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > 680 Ft. Washington Ave
> > > > NY NY 10040
> > > > tel: 212-795-4844
> > > > e-mail: pfh at synapse9.com
> > > > explorations: www.synapse9.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: friam-bounces at redfish.com
> > > > [mailto:friam-bounces at redfish.com] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Hugh Trenchard
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:05 PM
> > > > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Will Rogers and Animal Behavior
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I for one am rarely afraid to ask questions, stupid or
> > > > otherwise, when
> > > > > my curiosity is piqued.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do the ravens in Sante Fe align in vee formations when they
> > > > roll off
> > > > > chandelles? If they do, then regardless of whether they
> > > are having
> > > > > fun, it is an interesting pattern formation which causes
> > > one to ask
> > > > > reasonably why
> > > > > they choose such a formation. Do they do it for the sheer
> > > > > pleasure of the
> > > > > esthetics of the vee formation? This would, it seems, entail
> > > > > some "fun" of
> > > > > the formation, although I doubt I would find many people who
> > > > > would argue
> > > > > that is the fun they derive. So then why is it fun that they
> > > > > should align in
> > > > > those formations?
> > > > >
> > > > > I myself wouldn't claim to subscribe to a behaviourist
> > > > school, unless
> > > > > you can generalize the term to include analysis of the
> > > emergence of
> > > > > physical patterns among collectives. Pattern formation within
> > > > > sandpiles is more akin
> > > > > to my specific interests than the behaviour of individual
> > > > > animals. That is
> > > > > always interesting too, but it isn't the focus of my inquiry here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hugh Trenchard
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Peter Lissaman" <plissaman at earthlink.net>
> > > > > To: <friam at redfish.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:05 PM
> > > > > Subject: [FRIAM] Will Rogers and Animal Behavior
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > When he was given a brief description of the learned
> > > > theories of Dr.
> > > > > > Freud, and told that they accounted for all human behavior, Will
> > > > > Rogers stated
> > > > > > that: "he found it real interesting, but reckoned that in
> > > > > Oklahoma, folks
> > > > > > mainly did things jes' acause they felt like it". I gave a
> > > > > paper at AIAA
> > > > > > annual meeting in Reno earlier this week on birds
> > > > > extracting energy from
> > > > > > turbulence. There's a lot in it for the birdies, with their
> > > > > low flight
> > > > > > speeds, superb sensing and rapid response. Ravens in
> > > Santa Fe are
> > > > > > marvellous aerobats in the turbulence rolling off the
> > > > > Sangres. But why?
> > > > > > When you see them rolling off perfect chandelles, as with
> > > > > dolphins surfing
> > > > > > and gamboling in the bow wave, you have to admit that
> > > > > they're "jes' havin'
> > > > > > fun", contrary to these gloomy animal "behavioristos" who
> > > > > claim animals do
> > > > > > everything for a reason.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Peter Lissaman, Da Vinci Ventures
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Expertise is not knowing everything, but knowing what
> > > to look for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1454 Miracerros Loop South, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505
> > > > > > TEL: (505) 983-7728 FAX: (505) 983-1694
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ============================================================
> > > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> > > > > > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ============================================================
> > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> > > > > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ============================================================
> > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> > > > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ============================================================
> > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures,
> > > > archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Friam mailing list
> > Friam at redfish.com
> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >
> >
> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 24
> > *************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 11:42:54 -0700
> From: "Marko A. Rodriguez" <marko at lanl.gov>
> Subject: [FRIAM] The FRIAM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <B7C6BB75-7F8E-4CEB-BCA2-D187EF75FCB6 at lanl.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all,
>
> FRIAM should publish a book that contains chapters written by the
> most prolific of the FRIAM emailsters. I could envision an odd mix of
> science, science-fiction, and unadulterated speculation...
>
> The book could then be published through:
>
> http://www.lulu.com/
>
> In which printing is driven by consumption. Furthermore, lulu.com
> automatically places the publication on Amazon.com.
>
> I'd buy it,
>
> Marko A. Rodriguez
> Los Alamos National Laboratory (P362-proto)
> Los Alamos, NM 87545
> Phone +1 505 606 1691
> http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~okram
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:23:56 -0500
> From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 1. fun and sandpiles
> To: nickthompson at earthlink.net, The Friday Morning Applied Complexity
> Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>, friam at redfish.com
> Message-ID: <200701142123.l0ELNueX010604 at synapse9.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Nick,
> Hi. Yea, thinking about the difference between instrumental
> (physical) and abstract (theoretical) causes of even perfectly well
> behaved things is a tough climb. I'm glad if anyone is willing to
> put the two on the table at the same time at all.
>
> No I haven't read those, but I'm always interested in the new angles
> people try. The usual place I find the Darwinian models to break
> down is in assuming the environment somehow has the future shapes of
> things built in and a mold pressing process of random variation and
> atrition is how those shapes are transfered to organisms. To me that
> leaves the question as to where the shapes come from unanswered. I
> also haven't found anyone who has connected the fact that evolution is
> a sequential extension of a growth process, with any particular
> mechanism of growth.
>
> Can you give me a snapshot of what you found satisfying in either one
> of them?
>
> What's different with my approach is that the main players in the game
> are the evolving internal loops of the growth systems, the organisms
> themselves, animated by the feedbacks they 'discover'. Using the
> interface between a loop network's 'inside and outside' as a boundary
> between internal and external forces opens a whole lot of interesting
> new questions. The rudimentary question is, since loop systems
> exist, what do they add? They do appear to adapt and invent, by many
> mechanisms, and I think the key to exploring how is thinking about how
> the 'fringe' of their structures could vary independent of
> their 'core', so as to set up a kind of phase space exploring machine
> that is animated by feedbacks it finds.
>
> Phil
>
> > Phil,
> >
> > I have kept out of the most recent War of the PolyMaths because i
> just
> > don't have the firepower these days to keep up.
> >
> > But your last communication poked my fire a bit.
> >
> > Have you seen either THE PLAUSIBILITY OF LIFE or CATCHING OURSELVES
> IN THE
> > ACT.
> >
> > The f irst is a must read, because the gain/pain ratio is so high.
> As for
> > the second, the pain is pretty high, so I have been unable as yet
> whether
> > the gain is worth it, but I am pretty sure.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> > > To: <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Date: 1/13/2007 12:00:41 PM
> > > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 24
> > >
> > > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > > friam at redfish.com
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > friam-request at redfish.com
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > friam-owner at redfish.com
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: fun and sandpiles (Phil Henshaw)
> > >
> .........
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:44:36 -0500
> From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The FRIAM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <200701142144.l0ELiaSm026162 at synapse9.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> What I think would be nice for 'mining' forums like this would be for
> a publisher trying to stay on the edge have an editor pick out a few
> threads, from different forums perhaps, that appear to be testing new
> waters and invite critque and response.
>
> That would somewhat correct the problem I see with the linear thread
> structure of these open forum discussions at least. Mostly things
> don't get integrated and discussed here because every reply tends to
> change the subject. You get a random walk of thinking rather than
> neigborhoods well explored.
>
> phil
>
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > FRIAM should publish a book that contains chapters written by the
> > most prolific of the FRIAM emailsters. I could envision an odd mix
> of
> > science, science-fiction, and unadulterated speculation...
> >
> > The book could then be published through:
> >
> > http://www.lulu.com/
> >
> > In which printing is driven by consumption. Furthermore, lulu.com
> > automatically places the publication on Amazon.com.
> >
> > I'd buy it,
> >
> > Marko A. Rodriguez
> > Los Alamos National Laboratory (P362-proto)
> > Los Alamos, NM 87545
> > Phone +1 505 606 1691
> > http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~okram
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> tel: 212-795-4844
> e-mail: sy at synapse9.com
> explorations: www.synapse9.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:46:18 -0700
> From: "J T Johnson" <jtjohnson555 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The FRIAM
> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID:
> <e04090490701141446n6e82948bm1231ce7e6346c8a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> If someone will do the work of selecting and editing the content, the IAJ
> Press will handle the pre-press work and publish such a volume via
> Lulu.comjust as we did with the Ver
> 1.0 Proceedings. (See http://www.lulu.com/tom117)
> -tj
>
> On 1/14/07, Marko A. Rodriguez <marko at lanl.gov> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > FRIAM should publish a book that contains chapters written by the most
> > prolific of the FRIAM emailsters. I could envision an odd mix of

science,
> > science-fiction, and unadulterated speculation...
> > The book could then be published through:
> > http://www.lulu.com/
> >
> > In which printing is driven by consumption. Furthermore,
lulu.comautomatically places the publication on

> > Amazon.com.
> >
> > I'd buy it,
> > Marko A. Rodriguez
> > Los Alamos National Laboratory (P362-proto)
> > Los Alamos, NM 87545
> > Phone +1 505 606 1691
> > http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~okram <http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/%7Eokram>
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ==========================================
> J. T. Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA
> www.analyticjournalism.com
> 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h)
> http://www.jtjohnson.com tom at jtjohnson.us
>
> "You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
> To change something, build a new model that makes the
> existing model obsolete."
> -- Buckminster Fuller
> ==========================================
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> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Friam mailing list
> Friam at redfish.com
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
> End of Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 25
> *************************************

Yuri Shalygo

[SPAM] - Re: Friam Book - Found word(s) remove list in the Text body

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
Of Nicholas Thompson
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:35 AM
To: friam at redfish.com
Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [FRIAM] Friam Book - Found word(s) remove list in the
Text body

TWIMC,

I am an editor.

Nick

http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20070114/9b077890
/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:23:56 -0500
> From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] 1. fun and sandpiles
> To: nickthompson at earthlink.net, The Friday Morning Applied
Complexity

> Coffee Group <friam at redfish.com>, friam at redfish.com
> Message-ID: <200701142123.l0ELNueX010604 at synapse9.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Nick,
> Hi. Yea, thinking about the difference between instrumental
> (physical) and abstract (theoretical) causes of even perfectly well
> behaved things is a tough climb. I'm glad if anyone is willing to
> put the two on the table at the same time at all.
>
> No I haven't read those, but I'm always interested in the new angles
> people try. The usual place I find the Darwinian models to break
> down is in assuming the environment somehow has the future shapes of
> things built in and a mold pressing process of random variation and
> atrition is how those shapes are transfered to organisms. To me that
> leaves the question as to where the shapes come from unanswered. I
> also haven't found anyone who has connected the fact that evolution is
> a sequential extension of a growth process, with any particular
> mechanism of growth.
>
> Can you give me a snapshot of what you found satisfying in either one
> of them?
>
> What's different with my approach is that the main players in the game
> are the evolving internal loops of the growth systems, the organisms
> themselves, animated by the feedbacks they 'discover'. Using the
> interface between a loop network's 'inside and outside' as a boundary
> between internal and external forces opens a whole lot of interesting
> new questions. The rudimentary question is, since loop systems
> exist, what do they add? They do appear to adapt and invent, by many
> mechanisms, and I think the key to exploring how is thinking about how
> the 'fringe' of their structures could vary independent of
> their 'core', so as to set up a kind of phase space exploring machine
> that is animated by feedbacks it finds.
>
> Phil
>
> > Phil,
> >
> > I have kept out of the most recent War of the PolyMaths because i
> just
> > don't have the firepower these days to keep up.
> >
> > But your last communication poked my fire a bit.
> >
> > Have you seen either THE PLAUSIBILITY OF LIFE or CATCHING OURSELVES
> IN THE
> > ACT.
> >
> > The f irst is a must read, because the gain/pain ratio is so high.
> As for
> > the second, the pain is pretty high, so I have been unable as yet
> whether
> > the gain is worth it, but I am pretty sure.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: <friam-request at redfish.com>
> > > To: <friam at redfish.com>
> > > Date: 1/13/2007 12:00:41 PM
> > > Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 43, Issue 24
> > >
> > > Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> > > friam at redfish.com
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > friam-request at redfish.com
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > friam-owner at redfish.com
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: fun and sandpiles (Phil Henshaw)
> > >
> .........
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 16:44:36 -0500
> From: "Phil Henshaw" <sy at synapse9.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The FRIAM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <200701142144.l0ELiaSm026162 at synapse9.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> What I think would be nice for 'mining' forums like this would be for
> a publisher trying to stay on the edge have an editor pick out a few
> threads, from different forums perhaps, that appear to be testing new
> waters and invite critque and response.
>
> That would somewhat correct the problem I see with the linear thread
> structure of these open forum discussions at least. Mostly things
> don't get integrated and discussed here because every reply tends to
> change the subject. You get a random walk of thinking rather than
> neigborhoods well explored.
>
> phil
>
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > FRIAM should publish a book that contains chapters written by the
> > most prolific of the FRIAM emailsters. I could envision an odd mix
> of
> > science, science-fiction, and unadulterated speculation...
> >
> > The book could then be published through:
> >
> > http://www.lulu.com/
> >
> > In which printing is driven by consumption. Furthermore, lulu.com
> > automatically places the publication on Amazon.com.
> >
> > I'd buy it,
> >
> > Marko A. Rodriguez
> > Los Alamos National Laboratory (P362-proto)
> > Los Alamos, NM 87545
> > Phone +1 505 606 1691
> > http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~okram
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Phil Henshaw ????.?? ? `?.????
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> tel: 212-795-4844
> e-mail: sy at synapse9.com
> explorations: www.synapse9.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:46:18 -0700
> From: "J T Johnson" <jtjohnson555 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The FRIAM
> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group"
> <friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID:
> <e04090490701141446n6e82948bm1231ce7e6346c8a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> If someone will do the work of selecting and editing the content, the IAJ
> Press will handle the pre-press work and publish such a volume via
> Lulu.comjust as we did with the Ver
> 1.0 Proceedings. (See http://www.lulu.com/tom117)
> -tj
>
> On 1/14/07, Marko A. Rodriguez <marko at lanl.gov> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > FRIAM should publish a book that contains chapters written by the most
> > prolific of the FRIAM emailsters. I could envision an odd mix of

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