FYI: More mumbo-jumbo @ emergence
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
 
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LOL. Yeah, I made it sound a lot more cut and dry then it probably actually is. Even in software there copyright can apply to L&F. There was a famous case in the 80s between Borland and umm.. Lotus (?) about the design of the spreadsheet interface. And then of course you get the fucking Walt Disney corporation involved and all bets are off. So just don't come up with some Mickey Mouse piece of code, ok Hugh? On Oct 3, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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LOL, and thanks for these responses. Yes, my current arrangement is
quite loose, and being rather naive, I haven't thought it to be a problem until
it occurred to me my co-hort could be off and marketing the sim without me
knowing about it, possibly even to the Walt Disney corp.
Lesson taken, I'd better get a clear agreement happening and/or for him to
grant me a licence to the computer code. Does anyone happen to have a good
form document precedent for such a licence?
Hugh
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Miles Parker
On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 07:07:00PM -0700, Miles Parker wrote:
> > IANAL of course, but in general this situation is no different form one > where ay someone has an idea, tells it to someone else, and that someone > else writes a book about it. Ideas can't be copyrighted but software can; > and implementations of ideas can be patented. (Yuck, though..) Am I right No - only the ideas can be patented. The whole software patent brouha revolves around people patenting fairly obvious software algorithms for marginally novel uses. But it is not the software itself that is patented - if I write a piece of software that implements someone patented algorithm, then I am potentially infringing that patent, regardless of whether I even know the patent existed. > folks? By default the copyright is with the actual author, i.e. in this > case the programer, unless there is some specific agreement otherwise. But > that's just the default situation; if that's not what you want then you > guys need to come up with an agreement that specifies that you share > copyright and then make sure that the code has the appropriate notices. > That should be really straightforward. > > > On Oct 3, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: > >> Hi Robert. I subscribe to the FRIAM listserv, and have seen your note >> here. >> >> I'm wondering what the law is regarding the sharing of intellectual >> property where one person establishes the general rules for a computer >> simulation and then takes those rules to a programmer who then creates a >> specific program based on your rules. Do you both share in the resulting >> simulation, or can the programmer argue the simulation is his/hers? I am >> in a situation where I have established the general rules for a >> simulation, and another fellow has created the actual sim - so am curious >> to know how we should go about claiming our respective intellectual >> property rights (hopefully they are shared). >> >> Thanks and would be grateful if you could run this by Dr Winchell. >> >> Hugh Trenchard >> Victoria >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Robert Cordingley >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 10:35 AM >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo") >> >> For those nearby, don't forget the sfComplex Meeting on Intellectual >> Property is next Tuesday, October 6, 2009 2:00 pm to 4:00 pm >> (seehttp://sfcomplex.org/wordpress/2009/09/intel_property#more-3032 for >> details). I can try to get Bruce to answer a few questions like these if >> it's too far for you. Email me your question (50 words or less) and I'll >> see what I can do. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert C >> >> >> ERIC P. CHARLES wrote: >>> >>> Interestingly, >>> Most journals I interact with no longer have paper options for this sort >>> of thing. All you do is click on a link that says "I agree". I have >>> wondered how enforceable any such agreement is, and what the publisher >>> would do if I insisted on a paper transaction in which I could do things >>> like write in clauses. Has anyone had experience with these issues? >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> <snipped> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Mathematics UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [hidden email] Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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Of course, all these arguments are moot with open source licenses. But
then, I wonder how many people actually make money with open source. I'm on the fence with regards to the whole open source movement. Opinions? ;; Gary On Oct 3, 2009, at 10:24 PM, russell standish wrote: > On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 07:07:00PM -0700, Miles Parker wrote: >> >> IANAL of course, but in general this situation is no different form >> one >> where ay someone has an idea, tells it to someone else, and that >> someone >> else writes a book about it. Ideas can't be copyrighted but >> software can; >> and implementations of ideas can be patented. (Yuck, though..) Am I >> right > > No - only the ideas can be patented. The whole software patent brouha > revolves around people patenting fairly obvious software algorithms > for marginally novel uses. But it is not the software itself that is > patented - if I write a piece of software that implements someone > patented algorithm, then I am potentially infringing that patent, > regardless of whether I even know the patent existed. > >> folks? By default the copyright is with the actual author, i.e. in >> this >> case the programer, unless there is some specific agreement >> otherwise. But >> that's just the default situation; if that's not what you want then >> you >> guys need to come up with an agreement that specifies that you share >> copyright and then make sure that the code has the appropriate >> notices. >> That should be really straightforward. >> ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Hugh Trenchard
Hugh: I am an IP attorney based in Santa Cruz, CA. Would be pleased to give you some no-charge guidance, but not via a public forum. Feel free to call me at 1 831 332 7127 next week. --- Pat Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4
I will add that a Creative Commons license approach might be of
interest to this community. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 3, 2009, at 20:23, Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote: > Of course, all these arguments are moot with open source licenses. > But then, I wonder how many people actually make money with open > source. I'm on the fence with regards to the whole open source > movement. Opinions? > > ;; Gary > > > On Oct 3, 2009, at 10:24 PM, russell standish wrote: > >> On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 07:07:00PM -0700, Miles Parker wrote: >>> >>> IANAL of course, but in general this situation is no different >>> form one >>> where ay someone has an idea, tells it to someone else, and that >>> someone >>> else writes a book about it. Ideas can't be copyrighted but >>> software can; >>> and implementations of ideas can be patented. (Yuck, though..) Am >>> I right >> >> No - only the ideas can be patented. The whole software patent brouha >> revolves around people patenting fairly obvious software algorithms >> for marginally novel uses. But it is not the software itself that is >> patented - if I write a piece of software that implements someone >> patented algorithm, then I am potentially infringing that patent, >> regardless of whether I even know the patent existed. >> >>> folks? By default the copyright is with the actual author, i.e. in >>> this >>> case the programer, unless there is some specific agreement >>> otherwise. But >>> that's just the default situation; if that's not what you want >>> then you >>> guys need to come up with an agreement that specifies that you share >>> copyright and then make sure that the code has the appropriate >>> notices. >>> That should be really straightforward. >>> > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Gary Schiltz-4
Poorly worded. What I *meant* to say was that ideas can only be patented if one can demonstrate a potential (even if virtual) implementation and use. IOTW Einstein couldn't patent relativity and then claim rights to nuclear energy. If he designed the basic schema for a nuclear power plant then he could. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Patrick Reilly
Why is it--if it is--that if I write rules and you translate them into software you own the software and are not violating my copyright ownership of the (expression of the) rules, whereas if you translate them into French you don't own the rights to the French version?
-- Russ Abbott _____________________________________________ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles Cell phone: 310-621-3805 o Check out my blog at http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Patrick Reilly <[hidden email]> wrote: I will add that a Creative Commons license approach might be of interest to this community. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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Well, actually, you could own the copyright of your work as a translator in most of the EU. The devil (and the angels) would be found in the details of the agreement. Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Eric Charles
Oh, gosh. This discussion has "slid over" a bit ... from being able to reprint one's own work, through the relationship between code and copy right and not to patents.
Could somebody ... perhaps our Mr. Reilly ... clarify in a general way the relationship between these topics?
Nick
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([hidden email])
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Eric Charles
One of my books was translated into french; I got royalties, and I think I own the copyright!
n
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology,
Clark University ([hidden email])
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Patrick Reilly
Wouldn't I be violating your copyright if I attempted to sell my French translation of your (English) rules without your permission?
Whereas that wouldn't be the case if I attempted to sell my NetLogo translation of your (English) rules without your permission? Or would it? What if someone else then attempted to sell his French (English) translation of my NetLogo translation or your (English) rules -- without anyone's permission? Any copyright violations? -- Russ A On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Patrick Reilly <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Nick Thompson
My book got translated into Swedish by Lennart Nilsson. We only have a
very loose "gentleman's agreement", but basically my understanding is that I have granted him a license to do the translation and sell the resulting work, in exchange for a royalty, but that he actually owns the copyright on the Swedish translation. So Nick, could you, in principle, prevent the release of your French version under a Creative Commons License? Could you actually demand that it take place? That would be good test of whether you own the copyright. Cheers On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 09:58:28PM -0600, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > One of my books was translated into french; I got royalties, and I think I own the copyright! > > n > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > Clark University ([hidden email]) > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Russ Abbott > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Sent: 10/3/2009 9:37:28 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo") > > > Why is it--if it is--that if I write rules and you translate them into software you own the software and are not violating my copyright ownership of the (expression of the) rules, whereas if you translate them into French you don't own the rights to the French version? > > -- Russ Abbott > _____________________________________________ > Professor, Computer Science > California State University, Los Angeles > Cell phone: 310-621-3805 > o Check out my blog at http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ > > > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Patrick Reilly <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I will add that a Creative Commons license approach might be of interest to this community. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 3, 2009, at 20:23, Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Of course, all these arguments are moot with open source licenses. But then, I wonder how many people actually make money with open source. I'm on the fence with regards to the whole open source movement. Opinions? > > ;; Gary > > > On Oct 3, 2009, at 10:24 PM, russell standish wrote: > > > On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 07:07:00PM -0700, Miles Parker wrote: > > > IANAL of course, but in general this situation is no different form one > where ay someone has an idea, tells it to someone else, and that someone > else writes a book about it. Ideas can't be copyrighted but software can; > and implementations of ideas can be patented. (Yuck, though..) Am I right > > > No - only the ideas can be patented. The whole software patent brouha > revolves around people patenting fairly obvious software algorithms > for marginally novel uses. But it is not the software itself that is > patented - if I write a piece of software that implements someone > patented algorithm, then I am potentially infringing that patent, > regardless of whether I even know the patent existed. > > > folks? By default the copyright is with the actual author, i.e. in this > case the programer, unless there is some specific agreement otherwise. But > that's just the default situation; if that's not what you want then you > guys need to come up with an agreement that specifies that you share > copyright and then make sure that the code has the appropriate notices. > That should be really straightforward. > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Mathematics UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [hidden email] Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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In reply to this post by Eric Charles
Crikers, Russell, I have NO idea. I was raised with a serious case of
frog-worship, and so when the publisher came to me and offered me 1000 dollars for the french rights, I was tickled silly. The whole thing got sillier and sillier. In the first press run they absent mindedly left my name off the book. So somebody went through and pasted in my name on the cover and on the title page of every copy. I felt so sorry for them, I took a bunch of those as my author's copies. Still have them, would like one? Comportement des Oiseaux du Jardin. With a hand pasted cover! Collectors' item. Think what it will be worth when I croak. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University ([hidden email]) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > [Original Message] > From: russell standish <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]>; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[hidden email]> > Date: 10/4/2009 9:18:43 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo") > > My book got translated into Swedish by Lennart Nilsson. We only have a > very loose "gentleman's agreement", but basically my understanding is > that I have granted him a license to do the translation and sell the > resulting work, in exchange for a royalty, but that he actually owns > the copyright on the Swedish translation. > > So Nick, could you, in principle, prevent the release of your French > version under a Creative Commons License? Could you actually demand > that it take place? That would be good test of whether you own the > copyright. > > Cheers > > On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 09:58:28PM -0600, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > One of my books was translated into french; I got royalties, and I > > > > n > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, > > Clark University ([hidden email]) > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Russ Abbott > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > Sent: 10/3/2009 9:37:28 PM > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo") > > > > > > Why is it--if it is--that if I write rules and you translate them into of the (expression of the) rules, whereas if you translate them into French you don't own the rights to the French version? > > > > -- Russ Abbott > > _____________________________________________ > > Professor, Computer Science > > California State University, Los Angeles > > Cell phone: 310-621-3805 > > o Check out my blog at http://russabbott.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Patrick Reilly > > > > I will add that a Creative Commons license approach might be of interest to this community. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Oct 3, 2009, at 20:23, Gary Schiltz <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > Of course, all these arguments are moot with open source licenses. But then, I wonder how many people actually make money with open source. I'm on the fence with regards to the whole open source movement. Opinions? > > > > ;; Gary > > > > > > On Oct 3, 2009, at 10:24 PM, russell standish wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 07:07:00PM -0700, Miles Parker wrote: > > > > > > IANAL of course, but in general this situation is no different form one > > where ay someone has an idea, tells it to someone else, and that someone > > else writes a book about it. Ideas can't be copyrighted but software > > and implementations of ideas can be patented. (Yuck, though..) Am I right > > > > > > No - only the ideas can be patented. The whole software patent brouha > > revolves around people patenting fairly obvious software algorithms > > for marginally novel uses. But it is not the software itself that is > > patented - if I write a piece of software that implements someone > > patented algorithm, then I am potentially infringing that patent, > > regardless of whether I even know the patent existed. > > > > > > folks? By default the copyright is with the actual author, i.e. in this > > case the programer, unless there is some specific agreement otherwise. > > that's just the default situation; if that's not what you want then you > > guys need to come up with an agreement that specifies that you share > > copyright and then make sure that the code has the appropriate notices. > > That should be really straightforward. > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > -- > > > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Mathematics > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [hidden email] > Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 11:23:23PM -0600, Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> Crikers, Russell, I have NO idea. I was raised with a serious case of > frog-worship, and so when the publisher came to me and offered me 1000 > dollars for the french rights, I was tickled silly. > > The whole thing got sillier and sillier. In the first press run they > absent mindedly left my name off the book. So somebody went through and > pasted in my name on the cover and on the title page of every copy. I felt > so sorry for them, I took a bunch of those as my author's copies. Still > have them, would like one? Comportement des Oiseaux du Jardin. With a > hand pasted cover! Collectors' item. > I didn't know you were a twitcher! Did you sell many copies? And were English readers more interested in birds than the French, or was it the other way around? > Think what it will be worth when I croak. > A friend ordered a copy of my book to give his brother-in-law for his birthday. When it arrived from Amazon, he unwrapped it to find it was a copy of "History of guns", or some such militaria style book. Only inside the cover, was a copy of my book printed on the same form factor as the gun book (so plenty of white space). He promptly alerted Amazon who supplied the proper version of my book - but he now proudly shows off his edition as a collectors item. Think what that will be worth! Cheers -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Mathematics UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [hidden email] Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Publishing Agreements (was "More mumbo-jumbo")
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English readers want to know how to watch them and catalog them.
French readers want to know how to catch them and cook them. -- R On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 4:32 AM, russell standish <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snip> I didn't know you were a twitcher! Did you sell many copies? And were ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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