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FW: Sun memo vs Java

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Friam mailing list

FW: Sun memo vs Java

"One spark can start a prarie fire" - Mao ZeDong

Given the current Santa Fe drought conditions I thought I'd send out this little
spark to see if we can't get a huge flame going... ;-)

Roger Frye writes:
> This claims to be an internal Sun memo:
> http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321
> It says that the Java implementation on Solaris is so bad that it can't
> be used for the delivery of reliable applications.
> The memo also notes better performance by coding in Python.

____________________________________________________
http://www.redfish.com [hidden email]
624 Agua Fria Street office: (505)995-0206
Santa Fe, NM 87501 mobile: (505)577-5828

Friam mailing list

FW: Sun memo vs Java

This is great. I think most Java developers would agree. It is good
to see internal memos on the subject. Maybe something will shake loose
in policy space.

1. Solaris - Sun's policy is to do the Win32 platforms first, then
Solaris. Remember these are "reference implementations" of the spec.
Implementations for Linux and Apple platforms are separate efforts
and of course always lag the reference implementations by some months.
Nobody but Sun has the need to do a better Solaris implementation, so
we might expect it to be less happy than the others. In fact, IBM
and HP would not mind terribly if Sun's server biz dried up and blew away.

2. Support vs new features. At this juncture I would love to have
support as the priority. The language is just too feature laden for
everything to work well on all platforms. I am finding some of the
basic Java2D (Shape fills) features are problematic under OSX
(though, to be fair, that's an Apple problem, not a Sun problem).

3. Size. Yes, the JRE is too bloody big. There are proposals on the
table to get the size back down but that may not happen for awhile
due to the wonderful state of the economy. Again, note that Sun
makes the reference implementations. Look at their stock price.

4. Extensions do not support modularity - Agree mostly, see my #3.

5. It is not backward-compatible across minor releases - This is nitpicky.
I've not had deprecation problems, and if they look at the way the source
implementation works around them, I think the language does pretty well,
mostly.
RTFRN. Also, Java Web start lets you control which VM versions you're using
for a given program.

6. Python. Why not C++ if they want speed? Not on my shuttle, no.

Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf
Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 12:52 PM
To: Friam
Subject: [FRIAM] FW: Sun memo vs Java

"One spark can start a prarie fire" - Mao ZeDong

Given the current Santa Fe drought conditions I thought I'd send out this
little
spark to see if we can't get a huge flame going... ;-)

Roger Frye writes:
> This claims to be an internal Sun memo:
> http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321
> It says that the Java implementation on Solaris is so bad that it can't
> be used for the delivery of reliable applications.
> The memo also notes better performance by coding in Python.

____________________________________________________
http://www.redfish.com [hidden email]
624 Agua Fria Street office: (505)995-0206
Santa Fe, NM 87501 mobile: (505)577-5828

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Friam mailing list

A Mexican View of Sun

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Sun Microsystems realiza anuncio de productos de hardware, software y =
servicios. Busca recuperar terreno ante avance de la competencia. =
http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/030210/tech01_1.html=20

a.. http://www.sun.com/bignews/blades/

b.. http://www.sun.com/bignews/v1280/

c.. http://www.sun.com/bignews/provisioning/

d.. http://www.sun.com/bignews/serverenhancements/

e.. http://www.sun.com/bignews/storage/

f.. En mi opini=F3n, la espiral de retroalimentaci=F3n negativa es muy =
fuerte en el caso de Sun. Adem=E1s de que sus procesadores est=E1n =
atr=E1s de los de su competencia en cuanto a rendimiento y competir en =
un mundo que busca "commodity" no es algo que distinga a Sun. =
Interesante el anuncio, pero irrelevante al final: Probablemente lo =
m=E1s interesante sea el N1 Provisioning.

The beginning says, "Sun Microsystems announces hardware, software and =
service products. They seek to regain ground in the face of their =
competitors' advances."

The last paragraph says, "In my opinion, the spiral of negative feedback =
is very strong in the case of Sun. In addition to the fact that their =
processors are behind the competition in terms of efficiency (power?) =
and competing in a world which seeks commiditization there is nothing =
that distinguishes Sun. The announcement is interesting, but irrelevant =
in the end: Probably the most interesting feature is that of N1 =
provisioning."

Frank C. Wimberly 505 995-8715 or 505 =
670-9918 (mobile)
140 Calle Ojo Feliz =
[hidden email] or [hidden email]
Santa Fe, NM 87505 =
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/wimberly
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Sun Microsystems realiza anuncio de productos de hardware, software =
y=20
servicios. Busca recuperar terreno ante avance de la competencia. <A=20
href=3D"http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/030210/tech01_1.html"><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT=20
color=3D#0000dd><U>http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/030210/tech01_1.html</A></U><=
/FONT></FONT>=20
<BR><A href=3D"http://www.sun.com/bignews/blades/"><FONT size=3D3><FONT=20
color=3D#0000dd>
<UL>
<LI=20
=
type=3Ddisc><U>http://www.sun.com/bignews/blades/</A></U></FONT></FONT><B=
R><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sun.com/bignews/v1280/"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =
color=3D#0000dd>
<LI =
type=3Ddisc><U>http://www.sun.com/bignews/v1280/</A></U></FONT></FONT><BR=
><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sun.com/bignews/provisioning/"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =

color=3D#0000dd>
<LI=20
=
type=3Ddisc><U>http://www.sun.com/bignews/provisioning/</A></U></FONT></F=
ONT><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sun.com/bignews/serverenhancements/"><FONT =
size=3D3><FONT=20
color=3D#0000dd>
<LI=20
=
type=3Ddisc><U>http://www.sun.com/bignews/serverenhancements/</A></U></FO=
NT></FONT><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sun.com/bignews/storage/"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =
color=3D#0000dd>
<LI=20
=
type=3Ddisc><U>http://www.sun.com/bignews/storage/</A><BR></U></FONT></FO=
NT><I>
<LI type=3Ddisc></A>En mi opini=F3n, la espiral de retroalimentaci=F3n =
negativa es=20
muy fuerte en el caso de Sun. Adem=E1s de que sus procesadores est=E1n =
atr=E1s de=20
los de su competencia en cuanto a rendimiento y competir en un mundo =
que busca=20
=93commodity=94 no es algo que distinga a Sun. Interesante el anuncio, =
pero=20
irrelevante al final</I>: <I>Probablemente lo m=E1s interesante sea el =
N1=20
Provisioning.<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://news.com.com/2100-1001-983892.html"></I></A></LI></UL></DI=
V>
<DIV>The beginning says, "Sun Microsystems announces hardware, software =
and=20
service products.  They seek to regain ground in the face of their=20
competitors' advances."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The last paragraph says, "In my opinion, the spiral of negative =
feedback is=20
very strong in the case of Sun.  In addition to the fact that their =

processors are behind the competition in terms of efficiency (power?) =
and=20
competing in a world which seeks commiditization there is nothing that=20
distinguishes Sun.  The announcement is interesting, but irrelevant =
in the=20
end:  Probably the most interesting feature is that of N1=20
provisioning."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Frank C.=20
Wimberly          &nbsp=
;            =
           =20
505 995-8715 or 505 670-9918 (mobile)<BR>140 Calle Ojo=20
Feliz           &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;         =20
<A href=3D"mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</A> =
or <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</A><B=
R>Santa=20
Fe, NM=20
87505           &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;      =20
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/wimberly">http://www.andrew.cmu.ed=
u/user/wimberly</A></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Friam mailing list

FW: Sun memo vs Java

In reply to this post by Friam mailing list

Sun comments on the memo:

"Sun confirmed the memo's authenticity, but said that the document is two years
old and that the problems it describes have been fixed. "It doesn't represent
Sun's position or the reality of our implementation today. The issues mentioned
in the memo are irrelevant at this point," the company said in a statement. "
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-984529.html?part=dtx&tag=nhl

____________________________________________________
http://www.redfish.com [hidden email]
624 Agua Fria Street office: (505)995-0206
Santa Fe, NM 87501 mobile: (505)577-5828

Guerin writes:

> "One spark can start a prarie fire" - Mao ZeDong
>
> Given the current Santa Fe drought conditions I thought I'd send out
> this little
> spark to see if we can't get a huge flame going... ;-)
>
> Roger Frye writes:
> > This claims to be an internal Sun memo:
> > http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1321
> > It says that the Java implementation on Solaris is so bad that it can't
> > be used for the delivery of reliable applications.
> > The memo also notes better performance by coding in Python.