FW: STOP:: a darn good writeup on the Gilmore case -- and from a Pittsburgh newpaper)

[George Duncan]

George T. Duncan
Professor of Statistics
Heinz School of Public Policy and Management
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
Phone/FAX: [phone]
 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Michael Shamos
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:14 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list stop
Subject: Re: STOP:: a darn good writeup on the Gilmore case -- and from a
Pittsburgh newpaper)

         Let's distinguish between laws and criminal statutes.  It's a law
that you have to comply with airport security procedures approved by the
TSA, but the penalty if you don't have ID is that you don't fly.  You're
not guilty of a crime.  We don't have secret criminal statutes, since that
would be inconsistent with due process.  We're entitled to know what acts
will get us thrown in jail.  We can have secret regulations, if they're
necessary for a compelling government purpose.
         Suppose the FDA found that there was a compound in green peaches
that could be used to manufacture undetectable poisons.  They persuade the
Department of Commerce to order the seizure of green peaches at the border,
and the regulation (having the force of law) authorizing that is kept
secret so as not to alert the public that green peaches are special in some
way.  That's OK.  But passing a secret law providing for a 10-year prison
sentence for importing green peaches would not be constitutional.  (A
public law imposing such a sentence would be.)

At 02:38 PM 3/2/2005 -0500, [hidden email] wrote:

>Yes, of course, it is crazy argue that the detailed inner workings of
>security systems shouldn't be legally protected to make circumvention
>harder, just as it is crazy to argue that the complicated engineering
>tricks that make it possible to build practical hydrogen bombs shouldn't
>be legally protected to make it harder for people who understand the
>simple general principles to make a bomb that actually works.
>
>But the article says:  "Gilmore said ... "They have all these secret
>laws!" ..."
>
>Are there **laws** that are secret?  Two possibilities: (1) there is a
>secret law that says you can't eat green peaches; (2) there is a published
>law that says you can't eat green fruit, but the definition of fruit given
>in the detailed text of the law is secret.
>
>-- Mel

____________________________________________________________________________
______
Michael I. Shamos
Distinguished Career Professor, Institute for Software Research
International
Director, eBusiness MSIT degree program, Co-Director, Institute for
eCommerce
Director, Universal Library
4515 Newell-Simon Hall, Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-8193 (office phone) 412-268-6298 (office fax) 412-681-8398 (home
phone)
Home page: http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/people/faculty/mshamos


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To subscribe or unsubscribe from the STOP mailing list,
send an email message to [hidden email]
with the subject line and body of the message containing either:
   subscribe stop
OR
   unsubscribe stop
Those two words should contain the entire subject line and
body of the message.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------