Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

[Nick Thompson]

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Owen Densmore]

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed global warming with him.

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good reason to stop polluting.

   -- Owen

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[scaganoff]

Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html

Saul

On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed global warming with him.

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good reason to stop polluting.

   -- Owen

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: [phone]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Nick Thompson]

Owen,

 

What do you think paleo guy would say after reading the new report? 

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Saul Caganoff
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:08 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

 

Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

 

http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html

 

Saul

 

On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed global warming with him.

 

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good reason to stop polluting.

 

 

   -- Owen

 

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: [phone]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Robert Holmes-3]

Here's an interesting take on the issue. What do insurance companies think about climate change?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/business/insurers-stray-from-the-conservative-line-on-climate-change.html

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen,

 

What do you think paleo guy would say after reading the new report? 

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Saul Caganoff
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:08 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

 

Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

 

http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html

 

Saul

 

On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed global warming with him.

 

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good reason to stop polluting.

 

 

   -- Owen

 

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: [phone]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Nick Thompson]

Thank you for this,  Robert.

 

It was just the sort of New Thought I was looking for. 

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:07 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

 

Here's an interesting take on the issue. What do insurance companies think about climate change?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/business/insurers-stray-from-the-conservative-line-on-climate-change.html

 

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen,

 

What do you think paleo guy would say after reading the new report? 

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Saul Caganoff
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:08 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

 

Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

 

http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html

 

Saul

 

On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed global warming with him.

 

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good reason to stop polluting.

 

 

   -- Owen

 

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: [phone]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Owen Densmore]

First, he agreed that there was clear climate change, that's simply a matter of record keeping.

Second: he could not then discern clear research that it was due to pollution.

Thus I'd guess he'd say, Good more research is a good thing!

.. And he'd stick with the difficulty of experiment, but would as he did then, wish to decrease pollution.

   -- Owen

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen,

 

What do you think paleo guy would say after reading the new report? 

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Saul Caganoff
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:08 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

 

Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

 

http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html

 

Saul

 

On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed global warming with him.

 

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good reason to stop polluting.

 

 

   -- Owen

 

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B61%20410%20430%20809" value="[phone]" target="_blank">[phone]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Owen Densmore]

Here's a new thought:  What is more important .. the increase in civilian deaths in jihadist warfare or the number of deaths being caused by climate change?

This comes from Papa Francesco's impatient sighs about the west's focus on trivialities like gays and women in the church, contraception, abortion and so on when grinding poverty, death by pollution and warfare, inability to negotiate/live in peace, AIDs and so on.

The west is as children, not adults.  The southern hemisphere really has a completely different take on What's Important.  

The tough question for us is: Just how important is climate change?  Is it more important than warfare?  I think about that, as a catholic/christian because I now live in the era of greatest martyrdom in the history of christianity.  Ditto martyrdom amongst islam.

So as much as I abhor the arrogant pollution of our planet, I have now started to think of the whole world's problems.  And I can't say what is the most important, at this point.  But I'm working on it!

I'll take a page from Doug: I think AssHoles are the true problem.

   -- Owen 

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you for this,  Robert.

 

It was just the sort of New Thought I was looking for. 

 

Nick

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 7:07 AM

To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

 

Here's an interesting take on the issue. What do insurance companies think about climate change?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/business/insurers-stray-from-the-conservative-line-on-climate-change.html

 

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen,

 

What do you think paleo guy would say after reading the new report? 

 

N

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Saul Caganoff
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:08 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Landmark 2013 IPCC Report: 95% Chance Most of Global Warming is Human-Caused | Weather Underground

 

Indeed. What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?

 

http://blog.leyerle.com/2010/08/what-if-climate-change-is-big-hoax.html

 

Saul

 

On 1 October 2013 03:09, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I met a paleoclimatologist at SFI years ago, and a couple of us discussed global warming with him.

 

He had a reasonable attitude: We are, paleologically speaking, at a cool period of climate, and the science of global warming is pretty difficult without experiments :)  He went on to say, however, that prudence is a good reason to stop polluting.

 

 

   -- Owen

 

On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Nick Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2535

I would love it if we could discuss this in some sort of rational way this Friday. 

 

N

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

--
Saul Caganoff
Enterprise IT Architect
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B61%20410%20430%20809" value="[phone]" target="_blank">[phone]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[glen ropella]

Owen Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 10:10 AM:
> I'll take a page from Doug: I think AssHoles are the true problem.

And, of course, you're using "asshole" as a synonym for "human".

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Neolithic fear is such a motivating factory.
 

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Owen Densmore]

Yup, I guess we're all asses in one area or another.  I loved the interview with the pope where he was asked "Who are you".  In church speak, he said "I'm an ass".

   -- Owen

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:47 AM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 10:10 AM:

I'll take a page from Doug: I think AssHoles are the true problem.

And, of course, you're using "asshole" as a synonym for "human".

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Neolithic fear is such a motivating factory.

 
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Steve Smith]

Robert -

Here's an interesting take on the issue. What do insurance companies think about climate change?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/business/insurers-stray-from-the-conservative-line-on-climate-change.html

Good contribution.  I don't know if this helps with Nick's pursuit of "a rational discussion" but I think the point made here is highly relevant:

Science seeks mechanisms of causality that explain as well as predict, often studying correlation along the way to get to it.  Insurance companies are happy with correlation and prediction... they don't *care* what causes what, they only care that one measurable thing predicts (within some interval of confidence) another.

I think your point is well taken, however:  While highly politicized discussions may argue over whether climate change is afoot, insurance companies don't waste their breath on such arguments.   Whatever the cause of the weather may be, they are betting on more and more extreme weather.  

Unfortunately, I think it benefits their business to *over* estimate extreme climate... it lets them charge higher rates to anyone *near* hurricane, tsunami, flood, or tornado country for said coverage... the best scenario for them is to predict more extreme weather than actually happens.

Similarly, I was surprised to see this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/

Again, the stock market is somewhat humorless about world events... following the "efficient market hypothesis", it doesn't really care about political correctness or the illusions caste by politicians with agendas.  The financial markets are a huge crowd-sourced prediction game. On the other hand, to the extent those who are *analysing* the stock market's response to government closures might have the agenda of a bull or bear's desire.  While the stock market is not so much responsive to the then illusions of politics, that is not to say it doesn't ride the crests and troughs of it's own greatest hopes and fears.  

I *am* surprised however, that the stock market took a small bump upwards today in spite of or is it because of the shutdown?  How does a government shutdown bode well for the financial markets?  I assume it is more "in spite of" than "because of" the shutdown... or some kind of reverse psychology effect... all the savvy players taking advantage of the chicken littles willing to unload their stocks at a bargain in the face of uncertainty?

For those of us who might want to put our money where our mouths are... the Iowa Futures Market explore this in predicting interesting things such as the outcome of political contests.  

Any insights in FRIAM-land?

- Steve

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Douglas Roberts-2]

Some are just more gaping than others.  Consider this rather exact analogy to our current political situation:

So, Imagine that the company you work for held a poll, and asked everyone if they thought it would be a good idea to put a soda machine in the break room. The poll came back, and the majority of your colleagues said "Yes", indicating that they would like a soda machine. Some said no, but the majority said yes. So, a week later, there's a soda machine. Now imagine that Bill in accounting voted against the soda machine. He has a strong hatred for caffeinated soft drinks, thinks they are bad you you, whatever. He campaigns throughout the office to get the machine removed. Well, management decides "OK, we'll ask again" and again, the majority of people say "Yes, lets keep the soda machine." Bill continues to campaign, and management continues to ask the employees, and every time, the answer is in favor of the soda machine. This happens, lets say... 35 times. Eventually, Bill says "OK, I'M NOT PROCESSING PAYROLL ANYMORE UNTIL THE SODA MACHINE IS REMOVED", so nobody will get paid unless management removes the machine. What should we do???

Answer: Fire Bill and get someone who will do the fucking job.

Bonus: Bill tells everyone that he was willing to "Negotiate", to come to a solution where everyone got their payroll checks, but only so long as that negotiation capitulated to his demand to remove the soda machine.

Bill is a fucking jackass.

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:47 AM, glen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen Densmore wrote at 10/01/2013 10:10 AM:

I'll take a page from Doug: I think AssHoles are the true problem.

And, of course, you're using "asshole" as a synonym for "human".

--
⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella
Neolithic fear is such a motivating factory.

 
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

--

Doug Roberts
[hidden email]

http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins

505-455-7333 - Office
505-672-8213 - Mobile

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[Marcus G. Daniels]

On 10/16/13 12:33 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:

Answer: Fire Bill and get someone who will do the fucking job.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-reinbach/the-gop-shutdown-is-sedit_b_4079692.html

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com