Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
Locked
123
123
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
 
|
Doug -
> > > Isn't this fun? We could probably go on like this this all day! I was never a Boy Scout, but from what I remember anecdotally, once one has their merit badge, it cannot be taken away (though they can be stolen and clandestinely resewn onto ones own sash)... Yet I think there are old Eagle Scouts out there arguing the merits of flint-and-steel over bow-and-stick or the Bowline vs the Half-Hitch or Short-Sheeting vs the Hand-in-Warm-Water-at-Night trick. Surreal-ly yours, - the Big Guy ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
In reply to this post by Carl Tollander
Carl Tollander wrote:
> So a 'real world' application is one you never quite have enough > memory and power for? THAT has been my experience categorically. Well said. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
In addition, a real world application is one that the client can't
adequately describe, but which needs to be done in half the time and with half the money required to build it. Oh, and of course it needs to run twice as fast as is theoretically possible. In other words, a real world application is one that can be built in some other real world. ;; Gary > Carl Tollander wrote: >> So a 'real world' application is one you never quite have enough >> memory and power for? ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
Thus finally proving the existence of parallel worlds.
Now if we could just find the wormhole... On May 25, 2009, at 7:21 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote: > In addition, a real world application is one that the client can't > adequately describe, but which needs to be done in half the time and > with half the money required to build it. Oh, and of course it needs > to run twice as fast as is theoretically possible. In other words, a > real world application is one that can be built in some other real > world. > > ;; Gary > >> Carl Tollander wrote: >>> So a 'real world' application is one you never quite have enough >>> memory and power for? > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
On May 25, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote: > Ok, so now that we have our trip down OOP Memory Land out of the > way, a few questions: > 1) What are the agents in this > 1.0E^6 agent simulation? We're not designing a simulation. We're trying to architect for a distributed agent-oriented application development environment. > 2) What are the rules that define how they interact? Most rules will be application specific. > 3) What are the communications requirements between agents? application-specific > 4) What is the compute infrastructure? Existing web/ftp servers, browsers and applications running on client machines. > > 5) What are the desired results from running the ABM? Not an ABM. It will be an application platform. same as #1. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
Stephen Guerin wrote:
>> 4) What is the compute infrastructure? > > Existing web/ftp servers, browsers and applications running on client > machines. 2 ideas: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/ http://www.playstation.com/life/en/aboutch.html ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
In reply to this post by Victoria Hughes
Alice (aka Tory) -
> Thus finally proving the existence of parallel worlds. > Now if we could just find the wormhole... > I believe you found one when you joined this list, though it might be somewhat more of a Rabbit Hole? - Mad Hatter P.S. does that make Doug the Red Queen and Stephen the White Rabbit? And who precisely is the Hookah Smoking Catterpillar? P.P.S. Everyone, back to our game of FriamCroquet! ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
|
|
In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
and here's a couple more ideas:
2009/5/26 Marcus G. Daniels <[hidden email]>
-- Saul Caganoff Enterprise IT Architect LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
Saul Caganoff wrote:
> and here's a couple more ideas: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=distributed+computing+javascript+browser > To take a significant amount of CPU time from a user, especially in the background, it will be necessary to ask for opt-in. Publishing JavaScript to run as a side effect of various web pages probably won't please some people too much, especially if it is a project they don't care about or even dislike.. say, computing prime numbers for Allah... when the website was apparently a dating site. If there was a clear indication on the page on why and how to enable it, and the calculation was somehow aligned with the page, then that maybe it would catch on.. People would browse on and off different pages, so of course the calculations (or agents) would need to be able to migrate quickly and/or be small. Advantage of just installing an app based on something like BOINC would be that computations could be longer-lived. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
In reply to this post by Douglas Roberts-2
What was the client's problem again?
Douglas Roberts wrote: > Ok, so now that we have our trip down OOP Memory Land out of the way, > a few questions: > > 1) What are the agents in this > 1.0E^6 agent simulation? > 2) What are the rules that define how they interact? > 3) What are the communications requirements between agents? > 4) What is the compute infrastructure? > 5) What are the desired results from running the ABM? > > --Doug > > On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Stephen Guerin > <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > So a few of us are exploring new ways of constructing scalable > distributed agent systems and are playing around with architecting > a first instantiation in either Javascript or in Smalltalk. We are > interested in architecting a system that grow and evolve without > collapsing on the weight of itself, much in the same way the > Internet has been able to grow over the last 40 years without a > reboot. > > Relatedly, I was watching Alan Kay's'97 OOPSLA address > <http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2950949730059754521>, > and his call for a Universal Interface Language popped out at me > and I looked around for potential implementations since then. > Wikipedia claims there hasn't been one yet: > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Interface_Language> > > I was wondering if folks know of any candidates for a Universal > Interface Language that wikipedia authors may have missed. > > And, if we were to make our own, should we start with a REST-like > protocol > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_State_Transfer> > supplemented by server-side javascript or other such animal? > > -Steve > > --- -. . ..-. .. ... .... - .-- --- ..-. .. ... .... > [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> > (m) 505.577.5828 (o) 505.995.0206 > redfish.com <http://redfish.com> _ sfcomplex.org > <http://sfcomplex.org> _ simtable.com_ lava3d.com <http://lava3d.com> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Carl Tollander <[hidden email]> wrote:
What was the client's problem again? Darned if I can tell, this Universal Interface Language seems to have no document attached to it. The video from OOPSLA, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2950949730059754521, seems pretty incoherent to me. The video introduces meta-programming at minute 50 of 64, but the only positive example there is The Art of the MetaObject Protocol which he admits is incomprehensible unless you're already a CLOS expert. And we all know how the CLOS MetaObject protocol has taken the world by storm in the last 12 years. I really liked the observation that the velocity of proteins in cells, expressed in protein diameters, becomes 4x the speed of light when scaled to Volkswagens in Volkswagen diameters. Thermal motion in cells is violent. For all my molecular dynamics simulations, I never thought of what was going on quite like that. "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind". -- rec -- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
In reply to this post by Stephen Guerin
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Stephen Guerin
<[hidden email]> wrote: > And, if we were to make our own, should we start with a REST-like protocol > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_State_Transfer> supplemented > by server-side javascript or other such animal? It seems that RESTful use of HTTP could give a good starting point. GETing a base URL could yield a human-readable (HTML) page describing an interface and how to use it. Requesting other representations would allow publication of a variety of forms (e.g. RDF, IDL) for describing the interface in machine-usable terms. This should provide a way of "discovering" the capabilities of an "object", as Kay described. Clearly, URI addressability is key, but that's a core idea of REST anyway. Of course, any server-side implementation choice would be indistinguishable from the client's perspective. You could start with things like PHP or servlets using Java, Scala, Ruby, etc. Lately I've been considering the possibility of creating "actor machines" that could run in a PC virtualization environment (Xen, VMware, etc.). >From the network, these machines would appear no different that any other web/app-server. Internally, I would take advantage of fine-grained concurrency, safety and scaling properties of actors. What's unclear to me is what you see as next steps. It seems to me that any "Universal Interface Language" would have to start with some bootstrap "language" that could be used to discover enhanced capabilities. Doesn't HTTP/REST define an adequate bootstrapping language? If so, the extended language is anything you can describe in your human-consumable initial response, and potentially some corresponding machine-consumable resource (interface) representation. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's Universal Interface Language
|
|
In reply to this post by Roger Critchlow-2
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 01:32:01PM -0600, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> > "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ > in mind". > > -- rec -- Is that a bit like?: "If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise." P. Z. Pearce -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Mathematics UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [hidden email] Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
Re: Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's UniversalInterface Language
|
|
It might be, but it might also mean that God invented (or Darwin if you
prefer) two legs so that the triathlon could follow the marathon, if for no other reason than for our amusement- more probably to counter insecurities of humans with something left to be done. I can think of quite a few things in computing that are far more stupid than a participating in a marathon, like having to ask permission of the competition to exist. Running long distances seems brilliant in comparison. AK makes some good points in that speech, however, if you look passed the oop-la, particularly with respect to systems design. I came to some similar conclusions apparently about the same time period- '97 or so- that a holistic design would be necessary. Ironically, I have in the past year started to question whether Sem Web is pink? It doesn't seem to have some of the characteristics that would reflect blue, particularly since it must be written over pink so stretched that the pigment is barely discernable, and is constantly threatening to tear, whether it appears to work or not. .02-MM ----- Original Message ----- From: "russell standish" <[hidden email]> To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Distributed Agents and Alan Kay's UniversalInterface Language > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 01:32:01PM -0600, Roger Critchlow wrote: >> >> "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have >> C++ >> in mind". >> >> -- rec -- > > Is that a bit like?: > > "If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more > stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise." > > P. Z. Pearce > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Mathematics > UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [hidden email] > Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
«
Return to Friam
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |