BitCoin
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Not really. Once I chipped in for a pizza by sending a friend Bitcoin. That's about it, though. On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:
Giles Bowkett http://gilesbowkett.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Giles Bowkett <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Just heard of Zerocoin, an attempt at anonymization. -Arlo ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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This makes me think of Kindle & iTunes etc all of which have my valuables in their cloud. Aren't these "lost" when I'm gone? I guess I could leave my passwords in my will?
But the point is that a downside to bitcoin and other entirely digital stuff is that its hard to transfer to others. Even kindle is sorta hard to lend to a friend. Possible but awkward and limited.
So if someone is "rich" with bc, how do they leave it for their heirs?
-- Owen
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Roger Critchlow <[hidden email]> wrote:
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On 11/29/2013 08:43 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:
> So if someone is "rich" with bc, how do they leave it for their heirs? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet -- glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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I haven’t followed this closely, so excuse me if I’m repeating someone else’s comment.
One thing that worries me a bit is that bitcoins are “mined” with computer power. Who in the world probably has the most available computer power? My guess would be the NSA. Are we in danger of making the NSA financially independent of Congress? It looks like the CIA and drugs, and Iran-Contra in spades. —Barry On Nov 29, 2013, at 9:47 AM, glen e. p. ropella <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 11/29/2013 08:43 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: >> So if someone is "rich" with bc, how do they leave it for their heirs? > > https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet > > -- > glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847 > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Think of it like Seti At Home .. but being paid for your computer resources, which after all you feed and maintain (electric & updates). Money At Home.
-- Owen
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Barry MacKichan <[hidden email]> wrote: I haven’t followed this closely, so excuse me if I’m repeating someone else’s comment. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Barry MacKichan
On 11/29/13, 9:58 AM, Barry MacKichan wrote:
> Are we in danger of making the NSA financially independent of Congress? Not yet, the whole market is `only' about 12 billion. Maybe someday.. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Bitcoin mining and the NSA does seem to me like a match made in heaven. Mainly because they both spend a lot of time and energy breaking hashes. The "Miners" do it to mine bitcoins whereas the NSA does it to break encryption. It would probably be really easy for a big NSA computer to mine some coins. They may even know some secret math tricks for reversing a hash that normal people do not.
As a bitcoin n00b, I found this site fun and informative https://blockchain.info/ . They even have realtime some webgl vizualizations. You can also watch bitcoins being "minted". Cody Smith On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Marcus G. Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
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BitCoin.... hmmm...
The TechnoAnarchist in me likes the idea of such a currency, though the CommunalHumanist in me prefers barter-supporting systems such as Ithica-Hours and the Santa Fe Time Bank. I find HashCash an interesting corollary item. Most notably used to weed out spam/DoS attacks, it's underlying principle of Proof of Work (PoW) (and apparently HashCash itself?) is used as part of the distributed authentication of BitCoin claims. Owen's question of "how does one put BitCoins in their will"... BitCoin's tenderability depends entirely on "what you know"... so the closest thing to putting your BitCoins in a Will is to put "the keys" to a "Bitcoin Wallet" in their will? As I understand it, the key to maintaining the value of a BitCoin is keeping it "private"... *anyone* can spend a found/stolen BitCoin like they could spend a physical coin. The physical coin can't be double-spent except by good sleight-of-hand short-con types (see opening scenes of The Grifters with John Cusack) which just means defrauding the business or cashier of the value by witholding/trading-out the token, but BitCoin relies on all transactions being recorded in a distributed block-chain (I haven't sorted out how this all is implemented and avoids race conditions, etc.). This leads to the question of BitCoin "mining". This seems to be a significant misnomer. While BitCoins are being *minted anew* in the process, they are also being *earned*.... BitCoin miners are, by definition, doing useful work to maintain the integrity of the whole system. It isn't clear to me what will motivate people to dedicate resources to this process once we hit the "end of BitCoin minting" at 21M BitCoins. The principle of halving the reward (geometric shrinkage in "value"?) would seem to counterbalance Moore's Law of doubling Computer Power every 18 months, but it isn't clear to me (yet) how these are calibrated against eachother. It seems that any superlinear growth in value (currently exponential or geometric?) will unbalance the equation, causing an acceleration in the total amount of resource put against it. Perhaps by the time we reach 21M BitCoins (once estimated to be in 2140???) the real *cost* of maintaining the distributed blockchain will be low enough as to be incentivized otherwise (a "tax" or negative interest on bitcoins? a "transaction fee" to spend them?). Maybe by then there will be enough "Money-at-Home" services running on your Screen Saver (WTF makes us think that in 10 much less 130 years computing will look at *all*like what it does today?). More likely the nanomachines running in your bloodstream that took the place of your liver (now an irrelevant, atrophied organ) have a background process running to maintain blockchains? Hardly. The idea of the NSA (or even darker/spookier/unknown/unnamed TLAs) using their uber-massive computing power and bullpen of savants (think Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting being interviewed by the NSA) to corrupt/subvert this process is sad if not actually terrifying. I could do the search (and probably will) but there must be devastating implications of Quantum Computing on BitCoin mining/security? And what about lost or destroyed (or simply hoarded) BitCoins. I suspect the USPS and the US Mint depends modestly on the amount of their "currency" being lost/destroyed/collected ... for stamps (especially today!) that could be in the single or double digits of percentage... for currency/coin, I suspect a much lower (but not insignificant) percentage goes down one drain or another (as a child, I remember people drilling holes in pennies to make washers for copper riveting because they were "cheaper"). Once the unique signature of a minted BitCoin is "lost" it can never be retrieved? I also don't fully appreciate the implications of the transaction history... it seems to fly in the face of anonymity? And does it mean that some bitCoins will be worth more than others? virgin BitCoins still in the hands of the minter? Bitcoins with a long and checkered past provenance? "This BitCoin was once used by Barack Obama to buy off John Boehner to pretend to oppose ObamaCare before it was disclosed that ... " and then "it was later used to pay off Ollie North for the long standing debt on his part in both John and Bobby Kennedy's assasination". Ok... identity isn't required for a transaction but the *sequence* and *timing* of transactions would be inviolate? Those alone have some residual/innate utility in sorting out who did what/when/why/how? I guess this is why it has been suggested that BitCoin isn't an ideal place to launder money? - Steve
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In reply to this post by cody dooderson
Someone in our FRIAM community (who can claim credit if they wish)
once suggested to me, based on HashCash and GeoHash and GeoCache that
there should emerge something called "HashCache".
This solves the problem of the small-time recreational drug user who is past their prime and can no longer just crash into any local Dive Bar, Starbucks, or Auto Parts store and score some pot "on the fly" while traveling. TSA has made it harder to carry your stash with you, the USPS has made it harder to "mail some ahead", and despite the medical marijuana laws, it is probably not equally easy to "score" just anywhere you go at the drop of a few big bills. The idea in question involved a method for being able to anonymously solicit and exchange "cash" for "hash" using HashCash methods along with Geo/Hash/Cacheing. I suppose it could also work to have at your disposal your favorite military-grade weapons/ammunition anywhere you travel without needing to maintain a personal network of unsavory types. I'm not saying it is a good idea, but it does seem somewhat inevitable in the progression of the phonetic riff (Hash, Cash, and Cache) as well as in the constant arms race between what we consider savory and what we do not. - Anonymous ;^) ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
On 11/29/2013 01:29 PM, Steve Smith
wrote:
And sometimes they don't even know it! http://blog.malwarebytes.org/fraud-scam/2013/11/potentially-unwanted-miners-toolbar-peddlers-use-your-system-to-make-btc/ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Quick pragmatic question---what companies actually accept this bit coin stuff? That being said: I haven't read the thread, I've seen bit coin surface a few times though. The concept intrigues me. On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Marcus G. Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Steve Smith
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Apparently the name originally proposed for GeoCaching was GPS-Stashing until someone pointed out law enforcement might not like this. "Excuse me, citizen, but what are you doing wandering around in the woods?" "Well, officer, the Internet told me there was a stash somewhere around here..." - http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/gpsstash/conversations/topics/62
But there must be some way vendors on the Silk Road deliver their goods...I figured they contained it in things like ceramic gifts and so on packaged to foil chemical sensors.
Or at least, pseudonymous... ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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In reply to this post by Barry MacKichan
> One thing that worries me a bit is that bitcoins are “mined” with computer power. > Who in the world probably has the most available computer power? My guess
> would be the NSA "How To Make A Mint," written by the NSA in 1996:
On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Barry MacKichan <[hidden email]> wrote: I haven’t followed this closely, so excuse me if I’m repeating someone else’s comment. Giles Bowkett http://gilesbowkett.com ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com |
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Hmm I like the potential of the dotcoin: Ferengi might want a dotcoin obliteration. California already had it's dotCom explosion. (and econmic implosion)--perhaps we weren't complete enough. Vitiman Cottage, VitaLife, and Bulk Nutrition have sent me emails saying there keeping an eye on these dotcoins, They're considering support for lifecoin and bitcoin. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Giles Bowkett <[hidden email]> wrote:
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