Apple and 1984
Locked
 
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Apple is dictating apps must be written in approved languages.
"Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited)." Wasn't newspeak an official language :-) from wikipedia: "Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suits the totalitarian regime of the Party, whose aim is to make any alternative thinking —"thoughtcrime", or "crimethink" in the newest edition of Newspeak— impossible by removing any words or possible constructs which describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion and so on." http://www.gizmag.com/apple-iphone-os-4-adobe/14781/ http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Stephen, I like where (I think) you are going with this.
Grant Stephen Guerin wrote: > Apple is dictating apps must be written in approved languages. > "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or > JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code > written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link > against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to > Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility > layer or tool are prohibited)." > > Wasn't newspeak an official language :-) > > from wikipedia: > "Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and > simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suits the totalitarian regime > of the Party, whose aim is to make any alternative > thinking—"thoughtcrime", or "crimethink" in the newest edition of > Newspeak—impossible by removing any words or possible constructs which > describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion and so on." > > http://www.gizmag.com/apple-iphone-os-4-adobe/14781/ > http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Stephen Guerin-3
On 4/12/10 9:02 AM, Stephen Guerin wrote:
> Apple is dictating apps must be written in approved languages. > "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or > JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code > written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link > against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to > Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility > layer or tool are prohibited)." I understand part of the reasoning for this is that they believe (plausibly, I think) that, more often than not, intermediate software layers tend to gum things up, especially in the case of hardware that has very limited resources. Apple doesn't want to have apps that are slow just because of poorly-thought-out and bloated cross-platform middleware they don't control, nor do they want application developers to lock-in to some less interesting subset of their API feature set for the convenience of middleware developers and users. And of course, why would they want to encourage developers to consider non-Apple platforms? Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Stephen Guerin-3
I'm curious what the deeper story is. Google limits their languages to C/C++, Java, Python and Javascript. Is this similar or just a grudge with Adobe? Or is it part of the HTML5 spec which offers a considerable simplification re: plugins etc.
Although Flash is a variant of JS, is there more to the story? I.e. Does it, or it's libraries, demand interfaces to more of the hardware than usual? I confess to not really groking Flash .. It seams to be much more than JS and some libraries. Air and other frameworks go beyond what I'd consider just a language. I also note Java is not allowed. ---- Owen I am an iPad, resistance is futile! On Apr 12, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Stephen Guerin <[hidden email]> wrote: > Apple is dictating apps must be written in approved languages. > "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited)." > > Wasn't newspeak an official language :-) > > from wikipedia: > "Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suits the totalitarian regime of the Party, whose aim is to make any alternative thinking—"thoughtcrime", or "crimethink" in the newest edition of Newspeak—impossible by removing any words or possible constructs which describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion and so on." > > http://www.gizmag.com/apple-iphone-os-4-adobe/14781/ > http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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Apple has already limited the languages allowed onto the iPhone to these four. Beyond running JS in the safari browser they do not allow end users to have programmatic access to the phone (though the developers license is only $99, a cheap price to pay for a kid to get to develop for the phone, no?).
So its against the terms to put Flash on the phone because this would allow people to program for the phone outside of Apple's control. Adobe has a work around in the works so that a flash program could be compiled to a "native executable", see http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/. It wouldn't allow for running arbitrary flash files off the web but would allow developers to re-use their app code and go through the apple market process. This move by Apple closes a loophole that Adobe was about to take advantage of. It is interesting that the programs must "originally" have been written in one of these languages. I wonder if that would mean you couldn't write code that was used to generated Objective-C code? Processing does something like this where a processing sketch is preprocessed into a standard java classes which can then be compiled. I'd bet Adobe would prefer not to have all their code be exposed like that anyway but does the term "originally written" keep others from doing this? --joshua On Apr 12, 2010, at 10:30 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: > I'm curious what the deeper story is. Google limits their languages to C/C++, Java, Python and Javascript. Is this similar or just a grudge with Adobe? Or is it part of the HTML5 spec which offers a considerable simplification re: plugins etc. > > Although Flash is a variant of JS, is there more to the story? I.e. Does it, or it's libraries, demand interfaces to more of the hardware than usual? I confess to not really groking Flash .. It seams to be much more than JS and some libraries. Air and other frameworks go beyond what I'd consider just a language. > > I also note Java is not allowed. > > ---- Owen > > > I am an iPad, resistance is futile! > > On Apr 12, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Stephen Guerin <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Apple is dictating apps must be written in approved languages. >> "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited)." >> >> Wasn't newspeak an official language :-) >> >> from wikipedia: >> "Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suits the totalitarian regime of the Party, whose aim is to make any alternative thinking—"thoughtcrime", or "crimethink" in the newest edition of Newspeak—impossible by removing any words or possible constructs which describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion and so on." >> >> http://www.gizmag.com/apple-iphone-os-4-adobe/14781/ >> http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Owen Densmore
The deeper story is that Steve Jobs is being driven crazy. If people don't stop telling him how to run his fiefdom, he's going to go join the Taliban with Harmid Karzai, and then you'll all be sorry. That's the real reason they purged all the boob apps from the app store.
-- rec -- On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote: I'm curious what the deeper story is. Google limits their languages to C/C++, Java, Python and Javascript. Is this similar or just a grudge with Adobe? Or is it part of the HTML5 spec which offers a considerable simplification re: plugins etc. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Joshua Thorp
All you need is a $99 developers licence and a Mac computer. Suddenly the price goes up considerably (particularly for those of us in Windows-land or Linux-land)....I'm not aware of any iPhone dev environment that runs on anything other than Mac.
Regards,
Saul On 13 April 2010 02:53, Joshua Thorp <[hidden email]> wrote: Apple has already limited the languages allowed onto the iPhone to these four. Beyond running JS in the safari browser they do not allow end users to have programmatic access to the phone (though the developers license is only $99, a cheap price to pay for a kid to get to develop for the phone, no?). -- Saul Caganoff Enterprise IT Architect Mobile: +61 410 430 809 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Stephen Guerin-3
Yes a very telling oversight on my part. I'm very happy with OSX -- but it ships with fine development tools.
Another good post on this: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2273-five-rational-arguments-against-apples-331-policy --joshua Saul Caganoff <[hidden email]> wrote: >All you need is a $99 developers licence and *a Mac computer. *Suddenly the >price goes up considerably (particularly for those of us in Windows-land or >Linux-land)....I'm not aware of any iPhone dev environment that runs on >anything other than Mac. > >Regards, >Saul > >On 13 April 2010 02:53, Joshua Thorp <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Apple has already limited the languages allowed onto the iPhone to these >> four. Beyond running JS in the safari browser they do not allow end users >> to have programmatic access to the phone (though the developers license is >> only $99, a cheap price to pay for a kid to get to develop for the phone, >> no?). >> >> So its against the terms to put Flash on the phone because this would allow >> people to program for the phone outside of Apple's control. Adobe has a >> work around in the works so that a flash program could be compiled to a >> "native executable", see >> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashcs5/appsfor_iphone/. It wouldn't >> allow for running arbitrary flash files off the web but would allow >> developers to re-use their app code and go through the apple market process. >> >> This move by Apple closes a loophole that Adobe was about to take advantage >> of. >> >> It is interesting that the programs must "originally" have been written in >> one of these languages. I wonder if that would mean you couldn't write code >> that was used to generated Objective-C code? Processing does something like >> this where a processing sketch is preprocessed into a standard java classes >> which can then be compiled. I'd bet Adobe would prefer not to have all >> their code be exposed like that anyway but does the term "originally >> written" keep others from doing this? >> >> --joshua >> >> >> On Apr 12, 2010, at 10:30 AM, Owen Densmore wrote: >> >> > I'm curious what the deeper story is. Google limits their languages to >> C/C++, Java, Python and Javascript. Is this similar or just a grudge with >> Adobe? Or is it part of the HTML5 spec which offers a considerable >> simplification re: plugins etc. >> > >> > Although Flash is a variant of JS, is there more to the story? I.e. Does >> it, or it's libraries, demand interfaces to more of the hardware than usual? >> I confess to not really groking Flash .. It seams to be much more than JS >> and some libraries. Air and other frameworks go beyond what I'd consider >> just a language. >> > >> > I also note Java is not allowed. >> > >> > ---- Owen >> > >> > >> > I am an iPad, resistance is futile! >> > >> > On Apr 12, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Stephen Guerin <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> Apple is dictating apps must be written in approved languages. >> >> "Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or >> JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written >> in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the >> Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an >> intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited)." >> >> >> >> Wasn't newspeak an official language :-) >> >> >> >> from wikipedia: >> >> "Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and >> simplified vocabulary and grammar. This suits the totalitarian regime of the >> Party, whose aim is to make any alternative thinking—"thoughtcrime", or >> "crimethink" in the newest edition of Newspeak—impossible by removing any >> words or possible constructs which describe the ideas of freedom, rebellion >> and so on." >> >> >> >> http://www.gizmag.com/apple-iphone-os-4-adobe/14781/ >> >> http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ============================================================ >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > >> > ============================================================ >> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > > >-- >Saul Caganoff >Enterprise IT Architect >Mobile: +61 410 430 809 >LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff > >============================================================ >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Stephen Guerin-3
I always liked the Wozniak part from Apple more
than the Jobs part. Now that Wozniak is gone, sometimes you think all that's left is marketing and business. Where is the old, original Apple which triggered a technological revolution and offered a fanastic tool and unlimited freedom for developers with the path-breaking Apple II? -J. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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In reply to this post by Joshua Thorp
Here is another interesting perspective....I don't agree with the poster's argument, but the post and comments has some good details about extensions to Objective-C that are being used to support Apple's position.
I particularly like the comment that "blocks" are a rip-off from languages like Ruby and Lisp which are considered "forbidden" - ironic.
On 13 April 2010 10:40, Joshua Thorp <[hidden email]> wrote: Yes a very telling oversight on my part. I'm very happy with OSX -- but it ships with fine development tools. -- Saul Caganoff Enterprise IT Architect Mobile: +61 410 430 809 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/scaganoff ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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So here's another speculation on the Apple XCODE lockup clause:
that the iPad CPU is not the ARM variant that most analysts think, it's actually a PA Semi dual core Power Architecture CPU running ARM emulation. The argument is that the die size is too big for the ARM Cortex, and it's too small for existing PA Semi designs unless they reduced the L1 cache. The system software will switch from ARM emulation to native code with iPhone OS 4.0, XCODE will produce fat binaries targeting both architectures, and iTunes will deliver the correct native binary when you install an app. Everybody who follows Apple's instructions will get an immediate 40% turbo boost when 4.0 boots.
-- rec -- ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org |
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