Another few ponderances
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(Yes I know that's not really how to use ponder)
Recently I decided to take my health way more earnestly and are genuinly curius about something if anyone has some ideas: What is it about cardio after a certain amount that makes it energizing? For example Monday after I wanted to see how long I could do a stationary bike. I felt pretty hyper. I didn't have anything other than 2 cups of coffee before then. I have also found I don't particularly crave cookies, and to some degree don't crave coke nearly as much. Lastly: Man, something about fruit juice recently just..really hits the spot. Just curious.. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Another few ponderances
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There are lots of papers on this. Here’s are some: https://www.pnas.org/content/108/7/3017 https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/316648 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306452209012019?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031938411003088?via%3Dihub From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> What is it about cardio after a certain amount that makes it energizing? ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by Gillian Densmore
From what I've experienced of fasting (more than 36 hours ... not just skipping a meal now and then), I've gotten an energy *boost* from it. I do crash harder after I finally do eat, though. Some of the pop-sci literature also suggests we might enter something like a starvation state if we exhaust the glucogen stores in the liver. And if you exercise before eating, then you're supposedly getting that glucose sugar from your liver.
Most of the actual science literature is still too far removed from day to day living to be very meaningful, in my opinion. Although I just noticed Marcus' list and haven't followed those links, yet. On 1/10/19 8:36 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > (Yes I know that's not really how to use ponder) > > Recently I decided to take my health way more earnestly and are genuinly > curius about something if anyone has some ideas: > > What is it about cardio after a certain amount that makes it energizing? > For example Monday after I wanted to see how long I could do a stationary > bike. I felt pretty hyper. I didn't have anything other than 2 cups of > coffee before then. > > I have also found I don't particularly crave cookies, and to some degree > don't crave coke nearly as much. > > Lastly: Man, something about fruit juice recently just..really hits the > spot. > > Just curious.. -- ∄ uǝʃƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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In reply to this post by Marcus G. Daniels
Oh awesome! thanks Marcos! On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:03 AM Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
AAAH that might explain it! Yesterday I tried just a light meal (half bagle and PB) before going to planet fitness for cardio less hyper afterwords. When I got to wedtech thought I might want a diet coke...and basicaly found not at all! Hmmm...supposedly if you can concomitantly hit a flow like place some amount of bad fats gets turned into energy.I haven't a clue what the science says these days because that was from one of Maslows works back in the 90's if I am remembering correctly. On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:07 AM ∄ uǝʃƃ <[hidden email]> wrote: From what I've experienced of fasting (more than 36 hours ... not just skipping a meal now and then), I've gotten an energy *boost* from it. I do crash harder after I finally do eat, though. Some of the pop-sci literature also suggests we might enter something like a starvation state if we exhaust the glucogen stores in the liver. And if you exercise before eating, then you're supposedly getting that glucose sugar from your liver. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
Re: Another few ponderances
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I’d say the mental boost (from exercise) doesn’t kick-in until 45 minutes of sustained, reasonably-intense aerobic effort for me, and improves from there up until the point I get physically tired. The mania passes in about an hour. This
is probably not just energy from the liver since I work out at night. If for some reason I have to mental work all night, only a moderate amount of caffeine in addition will do that. The combo is almost like a new day. From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Gillian Densmore <[hidden email]> AAAH that might explain it! Yesterday I tried just a light meal (half bagle and PB) before going to planet fitness for cardio less hyper afterwords. When I got to wedtech thought I might want a diet coke...and basicaly found not at all!
Hmmm...supposedly if you can concomitantly hit a flow like place some amount of bad fats gets turned into energy.I haven't a clue what the science says these days because that was from one of Maslows works back in the 90's if I am remembering correctly. On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:07 AM
∄ uǝʃƃ <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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It's interesting because I can't distinguish between a mental boost and a physical boost, from exercise, especially. It's mostly true of other boosts (from drugs like caffeine, or the "adrenaline" surge of a good argument). But mental/physical seem slightly more distinct under the influence of the other boosts. Exercise boosts seem equally somatic and cognitive. But this could easily be some sort of illusion where a physical boost swamps the mental, or vice versa (e.g. with alcohol on board, you *think* your body is doing what you told it to, but it's not).
Tiredness is, oddly to me, orthogonal to the physical boost. The orthogonality doesn't show up in running because (I think) that's just a very repetitive action that decouples your conscious and autonomic awareness. So, after *running* for an hour, tiredness = no physical boost. But after an hour of good calisthenics, tiredness = physical boost. It's unclear to me how "aerobic" calisthenics is, though. Yeah, you breathe hard. But it's very controlled breathing. When running [†], I have some control over breathing. But it's mostly just to breathe as much as possible without letting my body get into an "out of breath" state. (I.e. breathe deep and paced to the speed of the run, jog, cross country, sprints). With calisthenics, the breathing regimen changes depending on the thing you're trying to do. I speculate that the physical boost has something to do with the stabilizer muscles, which are heavily used in calisthencs. I sprint and jog on very uniform surfaces (track, street). But I "cross country" on irregular surfaces, to whatever extent I can ... grass, parks, trails, etc. So, my speculation might be testable. Is a runner more "energized" after a cross country run than a street run? [†] This is from memory. I quit running a couple of years ago to focus on weights and calisthenics. On 1/10/19 10:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I’d say the mental boost (from exercise) doesn’t kick-in until 45 minutes of sustained, reasonably-intense aerobic effort for me, and improves from there up until the point I get physically tired. The mania passes in about an hour. This is probably not just energy from the liver since I work out at night. If for some reason I have to mental work all night, only a moderate amount of caffeine in addition will do that. The combo is almost like a new day. -- ☣ uǝlƃ ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: Another few ponderances
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Glen writes:
< It's interesting because I can't distinguish between a mental boost and a physical boost, from exercise, especially. > It's more a lifting of any feelings of despair that have accumulated through the day. I suspect testosterone is involved. Also I tend to increasingly specialize on to some sub-sub-topic during a workday and try to get closure on one such sub-sub-topic a day. Assuming that does happen, it is hard for me to reset on a new topic without intervening exercise or sleep. Caffeine is fine for keeping one trajectory going. Marcus ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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In reply to this post by gepr
Gil - My most relevant experience is having gone through 2 different periods of following a Ketogenic dietary regimen... once roughly 3 months and the other roughly 6. My motives were varied, but included trying to experience a *different* metabolic state than the one I've become comfortable with in my advanced and overly sedentary years (last 5-10). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenesis I'm not referring it to you for any reason in particular than my own experience with the significantly different subjective experience I had with food WHILE in ketosis. It is a bit of a commitment... it took me roughly 1 week of
modest discomfort to get into ketosis and a single carb-binge ( a
day or more) can kick you back out, requiring another (nearly as
long) period of transition. I went through one full-reset the
first time because I misunderstood that "buttermilk" carried as
much lactose (a sugar) as regular milk (whole or low-fat
notwithstanding). It also means narrowing the spectrum of
familiar foods quite a bit. No carbs means no sugar, fruit,
starchy vegetables, grains, legumes, milk, etc. but does admit
(promote) fatty foods like cheese, lean and fatty meats, eggs,
oil/butter. As a mostly vegetarian, that meant my standby easy
go-to meals were omelettes and Cobb salads (often without meat)
with at least one, often two avocados per day (in the
omelette/salad or on the side). The ketogenic metabolism also consumes extra electrolytes as the
liver actually *produces* water as it converts fats into ketones.
This is good news for anyone struggling to reduce sodium levels.
The avocados provided an easy way to get both high-fat and
potassium salts and a taste/texture treat. Extra
water-consumption is suggested, at least during the transition
into ketogenesis to help flush the various toxins that come with
the shift. I did my two periods over the summer each time, and
it has become my practice to drink at least two liters of water a
day laced with electrolytes (potassium/magnesium salts) and
apple-cider vinegar) as a "gatorade" replacement in the warm
seasons. I used to crave salt terribly... this undermines my
salt-cravings entirely. I find it incredibly satisfying,
especially while in ketogenesis. Ketogenesis is prescribed for a wide range of things from kicking
off weight loss with (sometimes) lasting metabolic differences
(i.e. Atkins, etc.) to some forms of brain dysfunction (epilepsy,
alzheimers), to athletic performance (endurance and strength,
though not muscle-building). I was lead to it by my daughter and
her partner who are both performance athletes and
paleo-nutritionists. I found that while in ketogenesis, my
endurance for physical activity increased (after the first week of
low-energy, etc. during transition) and my hunger was very
level... I *never* had any strong desire (other than habitual) to
gobble down a donut or pizza or a burrito. When I followed the
"intermittent fasting" ideal (restricting food consumption to 4-6
hours a day), eating became much more of an abstraction and/or
entirely instinctual process. I *enjoyed* my meals, but did not
crave them or find myself checking the clock... if anything I'd
realize that I had entered my "eating window" (nominally 2=6 pm
for me) without realizing it. The idea behind the intermittent
fasting (which can include missing an entire eating cycle) is to
keep the liver working hard at converting body-fat to ketones. I would also claim that I felt more mental focus (once past that first week). This is one of the reasons my daughter and partner seek ketogenesis, they feel that when they are eating carbs, they often experience a brain-fog. My own experience is not as stark, but I feel that self-analysis of mental states is VERY subjective. In general my transition into/out of ketogenesis was much less dramatic than is often reported. The "keto flu" going in has been reported lasting up to 2 weeks and returning to carbs is often reported to generate "bloating", "brain fog", etc. My experiences of the transitions were very mild compared to those reported by others. I don't know if this helps you think about your own metabolic responses to various foods and exercise experiences, but I find that kind of introspection/self-experimentation fascinating. - Steve On 1/10/19 10:07 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ wrote:
From what I've experienced of fasting (more than 36 hours ... not just skipping a meal now and then), I've gotten an energy *boost* from it. I do crash harder after I finally do eat, though. Some of the pop-sci literature also suggests we might enter something like a starvation state if we exhaust the glucogen stores in the liver. And if you exercise before eating, then you're supposedly getting that glucose sugar from your liver. Most of the actual science literature is still too far removed from day to day living to be very meaningful, in my opinion. Although I just noticed Marcus' list and haven't followed those links, yet. On 1/10/19 8:36 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:(Yes I know that's not really how to use ponder) Recently I decided to take my health way more earnestly and are genuinly curius about something if anyone has some ideas: What is it about cardio after a certain amount that makes it energizing? For example Monday after I wanted to see how long I could do a stationary bike. I felt pretty hyper. I didn't have anything other than 2 cups of coffee before then. I have also found I don't particularly crave cookies, and to some degree don't crave coke nearly as much. Lastly: Man, something about fruit juice recently just..really hits the spot. Just curious.. ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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I thought about what you said some Steve. My experience so far. Is that sometime after I consously started to go for a more balanced diet (for example) a ton of other things started to get improve a little: not as moody (that I can tell) and simillar to yours so far just better focus. It's amazing how good for you cardio is from the linked studies! I one of them sugested it grows the hypocampus somehow, and another suggested (trying to) go for a flow state somehow repairs brain damages. That's amazing! I have no idea that works because the medical terminology started to go over my head alas, something to to with CY enzimes (they think) and or possibly triggering NeuronGrowthFactors... if I understood the articles correctly that's more true for people with injuries, elderly, and amazingly mental health conditions. I For what it's worth, Steve about your salt cravings. I still have some suger cravings now...just not nearly as much as last year. I think Glen said something about not eating much before cardio cleans out the liver, I wonder if that's part of why? On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 12:28 PM Steven A Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove |
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