Americans Elect 2012 | The first direct presidential nomination

[Owen Densmore]

I'm not at all sure this outfit is going to help: http://www.americanselect.org/

..and I do understand that third parties tend to split the other two parties, Ross Perot got 19% of the vote!

But I'm starting to think AE is for real, even tho a bit spooky .. they're rather secretive.  I've registered and answered some of the initial interview questions.  And I do indeed remember just how powerful the net was for Obama and how much it may continue to be a big player in politics.

The main issue for me is that they appear to be primarily Democrat rather than Republican .. or maybe Liberal vs Conservative (you get to see how others answer the questions) so that it will likely hurt Obama.  If AE is NOT for real, it could be a plot to split the Liberal vote!

So if AE is for real .. not a scam, and if they have at least as much impact as Perot (19%), and if they keep on existing as an alternative, the main question is: am I willing to hurt Obama's re-election chances?

I think the answer is "yes" not because I dislike Obama, but because of the complete insanity of american politics today and how little chance he has for success.

What do you think?  How many of the rest of us has looked at AE?  Have registered and taken part?

        -- Owen

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[Russ Abbott]

There are a couple of problems with a 3rd party -- besides possibly splitting the vote of your preferred party.  One is that even if a 3rd party elects a president, it is unlikely that a 3rd party president will get anything done without the support of Congress, which will consist of people in the other two parties.  Considering how difficult it has been for Obama to get anything through Congress -- even though the Democrats controlled both houses before the 2010 elections and one house after -- why should we think that a President with no control over either house will be any more successful.   

A second problem is that if one is hoping for a President who is in some sense a centrist compromise between the two parties, we already have that. Obama is essentially an Eisenhower Republican.  He is already a centrist compromise between the right wing Republicans and the more left-leaning Democrats.  Look, for example, at how Krugman puts it. Obama has done pretty much everything possible to reach an accommodation with the Republicans. The problem is not that he is too far to the left. The problem is that the current Republican party has as its goal to prevent Obama from accomplishing anything. That way they can campaign against him as someone who can't govern. And perhaps they are right on that point. But it's not a matter of being centrist or not. It's a matter of facing a Republican party that values regaining power more than the well-being of the country.  Matthew Yglesias has a nice post on this also. 

 

-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________

  Professor, Computer Science
  California State University, Los Angeles

  Google voice: 747-999-5105
  blog: http://russabbott.blogspot.com/
  vita:  http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
_____________________________________________ 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Owen Densmore <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm not at all sure this outfit is going to help: http://www.americanselect.org/

..and I do understand that third parties tend to split the other two parties, Ross Perot got 19% of the vote!

But I'm starting to think AE is for real, even tho a bit spooky .. they're rather secretive.  I've registered and answered some of the initial interview questions.  And I do indeed remember just how powerful the net was for Obama and how much it may continue to be a big player in politics.

The main issue for me is that they appear to be primarily Democrat rather than Republican .. or maybe Liberal vs Conservative (you get to see how others answer the questions) so that it will likely hurt Obama.  If AE is NOT for real, it could be a plot to split the Liberal vote!

So if AE is for real .. not a scam, and if they have at least as much impact as Perot (19%), and if they keep on existing as an alternative, the main question is: am I willing to hurt Obama's re-election chances?

I think the answer is "yes" not because I dislike Obama, but because of the complete insanity of american politics today and how little chance he has for success.

What do you think?  How many of the rest of us has looked at AE?  Have registered and taken part?

        -- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Robert J. Cordingley]

Owen thanks for highlighting AE.  The cast or characters behind AE is
listed on http://www.americanselect.org/who-we-are which doesn't look
too secretive.  Does anybody know any of them?

Thanks
Robert

On 9/27/11 10:35 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

> I'm not at all sure this outfit is going to help:
> http://www.americanselect.org/
> ..and I do understand that third parties tend to split the other two
> parties, Ross Perot got 19% of the vote!
>
> But I'm starting to think AE is for real, even tho a bit spooky ..
> they're rather secretive.  I've registered and answered some of the
> initial interview questions.  And I do indeed remember just how
> powerful the net was for Obama and how much it may continue to be a
> big player in politics.
>
> The main issue for me is that they appear to be primarily Democrat
> rather than Republican .. or maybe Liberal vs Conservative (you get to
> see how others answer the questions) so that it will likely hurt
> Obama.  If AE is NOT for real, it could be a plot to split the Liberal
> vote!
>
> So if AE is for real .. not a scam, and if they have at least as much
> impact as Perot (19%), and if they keep on existing as an alternative,
> the main question is: am I willing to hurt Obama's re-election chances?
>
> I think the answer is "yes" not because I dislike Obama, but because
> of the complete insanity of american politics today and how little
> chance he has for success.
>
> What do you think?  How many of the rest of us has looked at AE?  Have
> registered and taken part?
>
>         -- Owen
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Santa Fe
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> To post to this group, send email to [hidden email]
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--
Robert Cordingley
Web Development
cirrillian.com
505-471-4569 (office)
281-989-6272 (cell)


============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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[Eric Charles]

Russ I agree with you completely, though I'm not sure a president who doesn't do anything is the worst-case scenario.

A third party run for president will not be able to do much without a third party assault on congressional incumbents. One of the worst things in American politics right now, in my opinion, is the pervasive favoritism given to incumbents by the electorate. Several large polls have shown that voters consistently think congress is horrible and needs to be completely revamped... except for their particular representatives, who they actually know very little about.

It would be very good if voters regained the attitude that it was the current congressman's job to prove they deserve a second term. That would help stop the wave of people who say one thing and vote another term after term after term. As crazy as some of the the tea party people are, I must admit that I have a lot of respect for politicians willing to keep their campaign promises even against the tide of public opinion. At least the people with tea-party representatives really will know what they are voting for (or against) come re-election time.

That, I suspect, is the change needed for real third-party emergence. If it started in congress, it would also have a much more immediate ability to affect (and effect) legislation.

Eric

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 01:02 PM, Russ Abbott <[hidden email]> wrote:

There are a couple of problems with a 3rd party -- besides possibly splitting the vote of your preferred party.  One is that even if a 3rd party elects a president, it is unlikely that a 3rd party president will get anything done without the support of Congress, which will consist of people in the other two parties.  Considering how difficult it has been for Obama to get anything through Congress -- even though the Democrats controlled both houses before the 2010 elections and one house after -- why should we think that a President with no control over either house will be any more successful.   

A second problem is that if one is hoping for a President who is in some sense a centrist compromise between the two parties, we already have that. Obama is essentially an Eisenhower Republican.  He is already a centrist compromise between the right wing Republicans and the more left-leaning Democrats.  Look, for example, at how <a href="http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/26/hidden-in-the-middle/" onclick="window.open('http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/26/hidden-in-the-middle/');return false;">Krugman puts it. Obama has done pretty much everything possible to reach an accommodation with the Republicans. The problem is not that he is too far to the left. The problem is that the current Republican party has as its goal to prevent Obama from accomplishing anything. That way they can campaign against him as someone who can't govern. And perhaps they are right on that point. But it's not a matter of being centrist or not. It's a matter of facing a Republican party that values regaining power more than the well-being of the country.  <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/09/26/328775/barack-obama-does-the-impossible/" onclick="window.open('http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/09/26/328775/barack-obama-does-the-impossible/');return false;">Matthew Yglesias has a nice post on this also. 

 

-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________

  Professor, Computer Science
  California State University, Los Angeles

  Google voice: 747-999-5105
  blog: <a href="http://russabbott.blogspot.com/" style="font-style:italic" target="" onclick="window.open('http://russabbott.blogspot.com/');return false;">http://russabbott.blogspot.com/
  vita:  <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/" style="font-style:italic" target="" onclick="window.open('http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/');return false;">http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
_____________________________________________ 

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Owen Densmore <owen@...> wrote:

I'm not at all sure this outfit is going to help: <a href="http://www.americanselect.org/" target="" onclick="window.open('http://www.americanselect.org/');return false;">http://www.americanselect.org/

..and I do understand that third parties tend to split the other two parties, Ross Perot got 19% of the vote!

But I'm starting to think AE is for real, even tho a bit spooky .. they're rather secretive.  I've registered and answered some of the initial interview questions.  And I do indeed remember just how powerful the net was for Obama and how much it may continue to be a big player in politics.

The main issue for me is that they appear to be primarily Democrat rather than Republican .. or maybe Liberal vs Conservative (you get to see how others answer the questions) so that it will likely hurt Obama.  If AE is NOT for real, it could be a plot to split the Liberal vote!

So if AE is for real .. not a scam, and if they have at least as much impact as Perot (19%), and if they keep on existing as an alternative, the main question is: am I willing to hurt Obama's re-election chances?

I think the answer is "yes" not because I dislike Obama, but because of the complete insanity of american politics today and how little chance he has for success.

What do you think?  How many of the rest of us has looked at AE?  Have registered and taken part?

        -- Owen

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at <a href="http://www.friam.org" target="" onclick="window.open('http://www.friam.org');return false;">http://www.friam.org

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Eric Charles

Professional Student and
Assistant Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
Altoona, PA 16601

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

[Owen Densmore]

Yes, and the several links (even Cobert!) at the end of the original post is pretty interesting.  Just listened to Stephen (funny) and PBS (informative).

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Robert J. Cordingley <[hidden email]> wrote:

Owen thanks for highlighting AE.  The cast or characters behind AE is listed on http://www.americanselect.org/who-we-are which doesn't look too secretive.  Does anybody know any of them?

Thanks
Robert

On 9/27/11 10:35 AM, Owen Densmore wrote:

I'm not at all sure this outfit is going to help: http://www.americanselect.org/
..and I do understand that third parties tend to split the other two parties, Ross Perot got 19% of the vote!

But I'm starting to think AE is for real, even tho a bit spooky .. they're rather secretive.  I've registered and answered some of the initial interview questions.  And I do indeed remember just how powerful the net was for Obama and how much it may continue to be a big player in politics.

The main issue for me is that they appear to be primarily Democrat rather than Republican .. or maybe Liberal vs Conservative (you get to see how others answer the questions) so that it will likely hurt Obama.  If AE is NOT for real, it could be a plot to split the Liberal vote!

So if AE is for real .. not a scam, and if they have at least as much impact as Perot (19%), and if they keep on existing as an alternative, the main question is: am I willing to hurt Obama's re-election chances?

I think the answer is "yes" not because I dislike Obama, but because of the complete insanity of american politics today and how little chance he has for success.

What do you think?  How many of the rest of us has looked at AE?  Have registered and taken part?

       -- Owen

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Santa Fe Complex "discuss" group.
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--
Robert Cordingley
Web Development
cirrillian.com
<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">505-471-4569 (office)
<a href="tel:[phone]" value="[phone]" target="_blank">281-989-6272 (cell)

============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org