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Nick Thompson

Abelsom's Aphorism

All,

My eye was caught by Ableson;s Aphorism as quoated to us by Tim D.

"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing
on my shoulders.
-- Hal Abelson"

Can anybody tell me more about it's source and its setting?

It's wonderful/

N
Nicholas S. Thompson
Professor of Psychology and Ethology
Clark University
nickthompson at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
nthompson at clarku.edu

> [Original Message]
> From: <Friam-request at redfish.com>
> To: <Friam at redfish.com>
> Date: 9/17/2005 10:00:21 AM
> Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19
>
> Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> Friam at redfish.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> Friam-request at redfish.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> Friam-owner at redfish.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Centrino (Roger Frye)
> 2. Re: Centrino (Martin C. Martin)
> 3. Link to 2006 Honda Civic Details (qef at aol.com)
> 4. Ant-based self-repairing spacecraft (Charles Gieseler)
> 5. Re: Centrino (Mike Morrison)
> 6. Re: Centrino (Mike Morrison)
> 7. Re: Centrino (Tim Densmore)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:55:11 -0600
> From: "Roger Frye" <rfrye at commodicast.com>
> Subject: [FRIAM] Centrino
> To: "Friam at redfish.com" <Friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <op.sw7ip9wun3z62t at conegliano.hsd1.nm.comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
> charset=iso-8859-15
>
> I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was

equivalent
> to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any speed

> tests yet.
> -Roger
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:03:20 -0400
> From: "Martin C. Martin" <martin at metahuman.org>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <Friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <432B08E8.4030201 at metahuman.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I've got a 1.8 GHz Centrino laptop, and it's about 2.8 times faster than
> the 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 desktop in the next room.
>
> - Martin
>
> Roger Frye wrote:
>
> >I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> >Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was

equivalent
> >to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any
speed

> >tests yet.
> >-Roger
> >
> >
> >============================================================
> >FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> >Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:48:06 -0400
> From: qef at aol.com
> Subject: [FRIAM] Link to 2006 Honda Civic Details
> To: Friam at redfish.com
> Message-ID: <8C7890EB180CB2B-1BA8-1D0F at mblk-r37.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Greetings, all --
>
> Fresh from my trip to the Frankfurt Auto Show, I bored everyone silly
> with some information on developments with powertrains, which led to a
> discussion of the new Civic Hybrid. Here's a link:
>
> http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050831.html
>
> and here's a link to a video describing the new 3-stage hybrid system
> used in the Civic:
>
> http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2005-4050705b/
>
> - Claiborne Booker -
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:13:51 -0600
> From: Charles Gieseler <charles_gieseler at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [FRIAM] Ant-based self-repairing spacecraft
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <Friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <432B89EF.1070409 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> New Scientist has a short article
> (http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=mg18725165.200) about a
> type self-repairing space craft skin under development that uses
> ant-based algorithms. As you may know, ant-based algorithms (aka ant
> colony optimization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_colony_algorithm)
> operate through metaphors of how ant colonies self-organize to solve
> complex problems. This seems to be a promising application.
>
> Cheers,
> Charlie
>
> "And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords." -Kent Brockman
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:08:35 -0600
> From: Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <Friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <f52f6891050917080843e9097e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> my centrino is able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at

least
> a 1. ghz p4 chip
>
> On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com> wrote:
> >
> > I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> > Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
equivalent

> > to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any speed
> > tests yet.
> > -Roger
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > http://www.friam.org
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:

http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/bd3b5285
/attachment-0001.htm

>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:09:32 -0600
> From: Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <Friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <f52f689105091708097340ddb8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> i also used to work for the best buy in santa fe, in the future i can

tell

> you which comp sales guys know what they are talking about and which ones
> won't bullshit you
>
> On 9/17/05, Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > my centrino is able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at
> > least a 1. ghz p4 chip
> >
> > On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> > > Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
> > > equivalent
> > > to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any

speed

> > > tests yet.
> > > -Roger
> > >
> > >
> > > ============================================================
> > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > > Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> > > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > > http://www.friam.org
> > >
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:

http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/3d044ace
/attachment-0001.htm

>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:29:36 -0600
> From: Tim Densmore <tim at backspaces.net>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> <Friam at redfish.com>
> Message-ID: <b3fe894e5732e71038f41113a50741e8 at backspaces.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> In the long run, it doesn't really matter - putting P4s in laptops is
> (IMO) absurd unless what you are looking for is more akin to a
> "luggable" than a lappy. Centrino is perfect for laptops -- it
> supports speed stepping, outputs much less heat, and sucks much less
> juice. I do not believe that a Pent-M is twice as fast as the
> corresponding P4, but I think it's the right chip for a laptop. My t42
> w/ a 1.6 in it runs beautifully, though, so I think you'll be fine.
>
> Thank you,
> Tim Densmore
>
> --------------------------
>
> If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing
> on my shoulders.
> -- Hal Abelson
>
> On Sep 17, 2005, at 9:09 AM, Mike Morrison wrote:
>
> > i also used to work for the best buy in santa fe, in the future i can
> > tell you which comp sales guys know what they are talking about and
> > which ones won't bullshit you
> >
> > On 9/17/05, Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com> wrote: my centrino is
> > able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at least a 1. ghz
> > p4 chip
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com > wrote: I had to make
> >> a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday.??It has a 1.7GHz
> >>> Centrino chip.??The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
> >>> equivalent
> >>> to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4.??Was he bullshitting me???I haven't done any
> >>> speed
> >>> tests yet.
> >>> -Roger
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ============================================================
> >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >>> Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> >>> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >>> http://www.friam.org
> >>
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > http://www.friam.org
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Friam mailing list
> Friam at redfish.com
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
> End of Friam Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19
> *************************************

Martin C. Martin

Abelsom's Aphorism

As most of you probably know, but for the benefit of those that don't;
if references Issac Newton's famous quote, "If I have seen farther than
others it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants."

- Martin

Nicholas Thompson wrote:

> All,
>
> My eye was caught by Ableson;s Aphorism as quoated to us by Tim D.
>
> "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing
> on my shoulders.
> -- Hal Abelson"
>
> Can anybody tell me more about it's source and its setting?
>
> It's wonderful/
>
> N
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> Clark University
> nickthompson at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> nthompson at clarku.edu
>
>
>
>>[Original Message]
>>From: <Friam-request at redfish.com>
>>To: <Friam at redfish.com>
>>Date: 9/17/2005 10:00:21 AM
>>Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19
>>
>>Send Friam mailing list submissions to
>> Friam at redfish.com
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> Friam-request at redfish.com
>>
>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>> Friam-owner at redfish.com
>>
>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Centrino (Roger Frye)
>> 2. Re: Centrino (Martin C. Martin)
>> 3. Link to 2006 Honda Civic Details (qef at aol.com)
>> 4. Ant-based self-repairing spacecraft (Charles Gieseler)
>> 5. Re: Centrino (Mike Morrison)
>> 6. Re: Centrino (Mike Morrison)
>> 7. Re: Centrino (Tim Densmore)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:55:11 -0600
>>From: "Roger Frye" <rfrye at commodicast.com>
>>Subject: [FRIAM] Centrino
>>To: "Friam at redfish.com" <Friam at redfish.com>
>>Message-ID: <op.sw7ip9wun3z62t at conegliano.hsd1.nm.comcast.net>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
>> charset=iso-8859-15
>>
>>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
>>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
>
> equivalent
>
>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any speed
>
>
>>tests yet.
>>-Roger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 2
>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:03:20 -0400
>>From: "Martin C. Martin" <martin at metahuman.org>
>>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <Friam at redfish.com>
>>Message-ID: <432B08E8.4030201 at metahuman.org>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>I've got a 1.8 GHz Centrino laptop, and it's about 2.8 times faster than
>>the 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 desktop in the next room.
>>
>>- Martin
>>
>>Roger Frye wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
>>>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
>
> equivalent
>
>>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any
>
> speed
>
>>>tests yet.
>>>-Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>============================================================
>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
>>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>http://www.friam.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:48:06 -0400
>>From: qef at aol.com
>>Subject: [FRIAM] Link to 2006 Honda Civic Details
>>To: Friam at redfish.com
>>Message-ID: <8C7890EB180CB2B-1BA8-1D0F at mblk-r37.sysops.aol.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>>Greetings, all --
>>
>>Fresh from my trip to the Frankfurt Auto Show, I bored everyone silly
>>with some information on developments with powertrains, which led to a
>>discussion of the new Civic Hybrid. Here's a link:
>>
>>http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050831.html
>>
>>and here's a link to a video describing the new 3-stage hybrid system
>>used in the Civic:
>>
>>http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2005-4050705b/
>>
>>- Claiborne Booker -
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 4
>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:13:51 -0600
>>From: Charles Gieseler <charles_gieseler at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: [FRIAM] Ant-based self-repairing spacecraft
>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <Friam at redfish.com>
>>Message-ID: <432B89EF.1070409 at yahoo.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>
>>New Scientist has a short article
>>(http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=mg18725165.200) about a
>>type self-repairing space craft skin under development that uses
>>ant-based algorithms. As you may know, ant-based algorithms (aka ant
>>colony optimization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_colony_algorithm)
>>operate through metaphors of how ant colonies self-organize to solve
>>complex problems. This seems to be a promising application.
>>
>>Cheers,
>> Charlie
>>
>>"And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords." -Kent Brockman
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 5
>>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:08:35 -0600
>>From: Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <Friam at redfish.com>
>>Message-ID: <f52f6891050917080843e9097e at mail.gmail.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>my centrino is able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at
>
> least
>
>>a 1. ghz p4 chip
>>
>>On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
>>>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
>
> equivalent
>
>>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any speed
>>>tests yet.
>>>-Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>============================================================
>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
>>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>http://www.friam.org
>>>
>>
>>-------------- next part --------------
>>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>URL:
>
> http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/bd3b5285
> /attachment-0001.htm
>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 6
>>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:09:32 -0600
>>From: Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <Friam at redfish.com>
>>Message-ID: <f52f689105091708097340ddb8 at mail.gmail.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>i also used to work for the best buy in santa fe, in the future i can
>
> tell
>
>>you which comp sales guys know what they are talking about and which ones
>>won't bullshit you
>>
>>On 9/17/05, Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>my centrino is able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at
>>>least a 1. ghz p4 chip
>>>
>>>On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
>>>>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
>>>>equivalent
>>>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any
>
> speed
>
>>>>tests yet.
>>>>-Roger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>============================================================
>>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
>>>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>>http://www.friam.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>-------------- next part --------------
>>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>URL:
>
> http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/3d044ace
> /attachment-0001.htm
>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 7
>>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:29:36 -0600
>>From: Tim Densmore <tim at backspaces.net>
>>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
>>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
>> <Friam at redfish.com>
>>Message-ID: <b3fe894e5732e71038f41113a50741e8 at backspaces.net>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>In the long run, it doesn't really matter - putting P4s in laptops is
>>(IMO) absurd unless what you are looking for is more akin to a
>>"luggable" than a lappy. Centrino is perfect for laptops -- it
>>supports speed stepping, outputs much less heat, and sucks much less
>>juice. I do not believe that a Pent-M is twice as fast as the
>>corresponding P4, but I think it's the right chip for a laptop. My t42
>>w/ a 1.6 in it runs beautifully, though, so I think you'll be fine.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>Tim Densmore
>>
>>--------------------------
>>
>>If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing
>>on my shoulders.
>>-- Hal Abelson
>>
>>On Sep 17, 2005, at 9:09 AM, Mike Morrison wrote:
>>
>>
>>>i also used to work for the best buy in santa fe, in the future i can
>>>tell you which comp sales guys know what they are talking about and
>>>which ones won't bullshit you
>>>
>>>On 9/17/05, Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com> wrote: my centrino is
>>>able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at least a 1. ghz
>>>p4 chip
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com > wrote: I had to make
>>>>a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday.??It has a 1.7GHz
>>>>
>>>>>Centrino chip.??The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
>>>>>equivalent
>>>>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4.??Was he bullshitting me???I haven't done any
>>>>>speed
>>>>>tests yet.
>>>>>-Roger
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>============================================================
>>>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
>>>>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>>>http://www.friam.org
>>>>
>>>============================================================
>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
>>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
>>>http://www.friam.org
>>
>>-------------- next part --------------
>>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>Name: not available
>>Type: text/enriched
>>Size: 1964 bytes
>>Desc: not available
>>Url :
>
> http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/9a2f1c33
> /attachment-0001.bin
>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Friam mailing list
>>Friam at redfish.com
>>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>
>>
>>End of Friam Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19
>>*************************************
>
>
>
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> http://www.friam.org

Roger Critchlow-2

Abelsom's Aphorism

Hal Abelson is on the faculty at MIT.

http://www.swiss.csail.mit.edu/~hal/hal.html

You could ask him about the quote, I don't know where it came from but
it may refer to his many computer science students over the past
decades.

-- rec --

On 9/17/05, Martin C. Martin <martin at metahuman.org> wrote:

Russell Standish

Abelsom's Aphorism

In reply to this post by Martin C. Martin

Intriguing how many people are unaware that this was Isaac Newton's
quote. More interestingly, the quote apparently is a bit of
scuttlebutt referring to his arch rival Robert Hooke.

The following is a quote from John Gribbin, writing in New Scientist,
13th Feb 1993, p48:

Seemingly under pressure from the society, Hooke wrote a letter to Newton couched in terms which could be charitably interpreted as conciliatory but in which he still managed to repeat all his allegations and to imply that, at best, Newton had merely tidied up some loose ends. It was this letter that provoked Newton's famous remark to the effect that if he had seen further than other men, it was because he stood on the shoulders of giants.

Traditionally, this remark has been interpreted as indicating Newton's modesty, and his recognition that earlier scientists such as Johannes Kepler, Galileo and Descartes had laid the foundations for his laws of motion and his great work on gravity - which is odd, because in 1675 Newton had not made public his ideas about gravity and motion. The charge of modesty does not, in any case, seem one which would stick to such a prickly character as Newton.

John Faulkner, a British researcher now based at the Lick Observatory in California, has come up with a persuasive new interpretation of Newton's remark, based on a study of the documents related to the feud. Far from being modest, Newton was being arrogant, says Faulkner; and Newton was not referring to Kepler and Galileo. Rather he was referring to his own work on light.

In Newton's day, references to the giants of the past were generally used to express indebtedness to the ancients, especially the Greeks. Seventeenth century scientists in general seem to have thought that they were doing no more than rediscovering laws known in much more detail to the ancients. Bearing in mind their previous disagreements and that Hooke had a distinctly unprepossessing appearance, Faulkner claims that Newton was particularly careful in his choice of words to Hooke in the letter dated 5 February 1675.

Quoting from 17th-century contemporaries of Newton and Hooke, including Hooke's friends, Faulkner creates a picture of Hooke resembling nothing so much as William Shakespeare's caricature of Richard III - distinctly twisted and dwarfish. Even taking some aspects of this portrait with a pinch of salt, there is no doubt that Hooke was a little man.

In this context, says Faulkner, the sentences in Newton's letter leading up to the remark about giants set the remark itself in a quite different context. Remember that this was, after all, not a hurried note despatched to a friend, but a letter written at the behest of the Royal Society in order to publicly resolve an embarrassing public quarrel between two of its fellows. Newton certainly chose his words carefully to achieve that objective, but in the light of his previous and subsequent behaviour it seems more than likely that, as Faulkner suggests, he took equal care with the hidden subtext. Faulkner has selected a number of relevant sentences, and has attempted to interpret Newton's intended meaning.

'What Des-Cartes did was a good step.' (Interpretation: he did it before you did.) 'You have added much in several ways, & especially in taking ye colours of thin plates into philosophical consideration.' (Interpretation: all you did was follow where Descartes led.) 'If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants.' (Interpretation, taking particular notice of Newton's careful use of the capital 'G': my research owes nothing to anybody except the ancients, least of all to a little runt like you.)

Cheers

On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 03:16:25PM -0400, Martin C. Martin wrote:

> As most of you probably know, but for the benefit of those that don't;
> if references Issac Newton's famous quote, "If I have seen farther than
> others it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants."
>
> - Martin
>
> Nicholas Thompson wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > My eye was caught by Ableson;s Aphorism as quoated to us by Tim D.
> >
> > "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing
> > on my shoulders.
> > -- Hal Abelson"
> >
> > Can anybody tell me more about it's source and its setting?
> >
> > It's wonderful/
> >
> > N
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Professor of Psychology and Ethology
> > Clark University
> > nickthompson at earthlink.net
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/
> > nthompson at clarku.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >>[Original Message]
> >>From: <Friam-request at redfish.com>
> >>To: <Friam at redfish.com>
> >>Date: 9/17/2005 10:00:21 AM
> >>Subject: Friam Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19
> >>
> >>Send Friam mailing list submissions to
> >> Friam at redfish.com
> >>
> >>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> Friam-request at redfish.com
> >>
> >>You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> Friam-owner at redfish.com
> >>
> >>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>than "Re: Contents of Friam digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >>Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Centrino (Roger Frye)
> >> 2. Re: Centrino (Martin C. Martin)
> >> 3. Link to 2006 Honda Civic Details (qef at aol.com)
> >> 4. Ant-based self-repairing spacecraft (Charles Gieseler)
> >> 5. Re: Centrino (Mike Morrison)
> >> 6. Re: Centrino (Mike Morrison)
> >> 7. Re: Centrino (Tim Densmore)
> >>
> >>
> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>Message: 1
> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:55:11 -0600
> >>From: "Roger Frye" <rfrye at commodicast.com>
> >>Subject: [FRIAM] Centrino
> >>To: "Friam at redfish.com" <Friam at redfish.com>
> >>Message-ID: <op.sw7ip9wun3z62t at conegliano.hsd1.nm.comcast.net>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
> >> charset=iso-8859-15
> >>
> >>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> >>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
> >
> > equivalent
> >
> >>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any speed
> >
> >
> >>tests yet.
> >>-Roger
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------
> >>
> >>Message: 2
> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:03:20 -0400
> >>From: "Martin C. Martin" <martin at metahuman.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> >>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> <Friam at redfish.com>
> >>Message-ID: <432B08E8.4030201 at metahuman.org>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >>I've got a 1.8 GHz Centrino laptop, and it's about 2.8 times faster than
> >>the 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 desktop in the next room.
> >>
> >>- Martin
> >>
> >>Roger Frye wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> >>>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
> >
> > equivalent
> >
> >>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any
> >
> > speed
> >
> >>>tests yet.
> >>>-Roger
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>============================================================
> >>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> >>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >>>http://www.friam.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------
> >>
> >>Message: 3
> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:48:06 -0400
> >>From: qef at aol.com
> >>Subject: [FRIAM] Link to 2006 Honda Civic Details
> >>To: Friam at redfish.com
> >>Message-ID: <8C7890EB180CB2B-1BA8-1D0F at mblk-r37.sysops.aol.com>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >>
> >>Greetings, all --
> >>
> >>Fresh from my trip to the Frankfurt Auto Show, I bored everyone silly
> >>with some information on developments with powertrains, which led to a
> >>discussion of the new Civic Hybrid. Here's a link:
> >>
> >>http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050831.html
> >>
> >>and here's a link to a video describing the new 3-stage hybrid system
> >>used in the Civic:
> >>
> >>http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2005-4050705b/
> >>
> >>- Claiborne Booker -
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------
> >>
> >>Message: 4
> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:13:51 -0600
> >>From: Charles Gieseler <charles_gieseler at yahoo.com>
> >>Subject: [FRIAM] Ant-based self-repairing spacecraft
> >>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> <Friam at redfish.com>
> >>Message-ID: <432B89EF.1070409 at yahoo.com>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>
> >>
> >>New Scientist has a short article
> >>(http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=mg18725165.200) about a
> >>type self-repairing space craft skin under development that uses
> >>ant-based algorithms. As you may know, ant-based algorithms (aka ant
> >>colony optimization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_colony_algorithm)
> >>operate through metaphors of how ant colonies self-organize to solve
> >>complex problems. This seems to be a promising application.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >>"And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords." -Kent Brockman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------
> >>
> >>Message: 5
> >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:08:35 -0600
> >>From: Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> >>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> <Friam at redfish.com>
> >>Message-ID: <f52f6891050917080843e9097e at mail.gmail.com>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >>my centrino is able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at
> >
> > least
> >
> >>a 1. ghz p4 chip
> >>
> >>On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> >>>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
> >
> > equivalent
> >
> >>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any speed
> >>>tests yet.
> >>>-Roger
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>============================================================
> >>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> >>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >>>http://www.friam.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>-------------- next part --------------
> >>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >>URL:
> >
> > http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/bd3b5285
> > /attachment-0001.htm
> >
> >>------------------------------
> >>
> >>Message: 6
> >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:09:32 -0600
> >>From: Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> >>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> <Friam at redfish.com>
> >>Message-ID: <f52f689105091708097340ddb8 at mail.gmail.com>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >>i also used to work for the best buy in santa fe, in the future i can
> >
> > tell
> >
> >>you which comp sales guys know what they are talking about and which ones
> >>won't bullshit you
> >>
> >>On 9/17/05, Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>my centrino is able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at
> >>>least a 1. ghz p4 chip
> >>>
> >>>On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>I had to make a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday. It has a 1.7GHz
> >>>>Centrino chip. The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
> >>>>equivalent
> >>>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4. Was he bullshitting me? I haven't done any
> >
> > speed
> >
> >>>>tests yet.
> >>>>-Roger
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>============================================================
> >>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >>>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> >>>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >>>>http://www.friam.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-------------- next part --------------
> >>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >>URL:
> >
> > http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/3d044ace
> > /attachment-0001.htm
> >
> >>------------------------------
> >>
> >>Message: 7
> >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:29:36 -0600
> >>From: Tim Densmore <tim at backspaces.net>
> >>Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Centrino
> >>To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> >> <Friam at redfish.com>
> >>Message-ID: <b3fe894e5732e71038f41113a50741e8 at backspaces.net>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >>In the long run, it doesn't really matter - putting P4s in laptops is
> >>(IMO) absurd unless what you are looking for is more akin to a
> >>"luggable" than a lappy. Centrino is perfect for laptops -- it
> >>supports speed stepping, outputs much less heat, and sucks much less
> >>juice. I do not believe that a Pent-M is twice as fast as the
> >>corresponding P4, but I think it's the right chip for a laptop. My t42
> >>w/ a 1.6 in it runs beautifully, though, so I think you'll be fine.
> >>
> >>Thank you,
> >>Tim Densmore
> >>
> >>--------------------------
> >>
> >>If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing
> >>on my shoulders.
> >>-- Hal Abelson
> >>
> >>On Sep 17, 2005, at 9:09 AM, Mike Morrison wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>i also used to work for the best buy in santa fe, in the future i can
> >>>tell you which comp sales guys know what they are talking about and
> >>>which ones won't bullshit you
> >>>
> >>>On 9/17/05, Mike Morrison <mtmichael at gmail.com> wrote: my centrino is
> >>>able to run world of warcraft fine and it calls for at least a 1. ghz
> >>>p4 chip
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On 9/16/05, Roger Frye <rfrye at commodicast.com > wrote: I had to make
> >>>>a rush purchase of a laptop yesterday.??It has a 1.7GHz
> >>>>
> >>>>>Centrino chip.??The Best Buy salesperson assured me that it was
> >>>>>equivalent
> >>>>>to a 2.7GHz Pentium 4.??Was he bullshitting me???I haven't done any
> >>>>>speed
> >>>>>tests yet.
> >>>>>-Roger
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>============================================================
> >>>>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >>>>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> >>>>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >>>>>http://www.friam.org
> >>>>
> >>>============================================================
> >>>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> >>>Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> >>>Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> >>>http://www.friam.org
> >>
> >>-------------- next part --------------
> >>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >>Name: not available
> >>Type: text/enriched
> >>Size: 1964 bytes
> >>Desc: not available
> >>Url :
> >
> > http://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/attachments/20050917/9a2f1c33
> > /attachment-0001.bin
> >
> >>------------------------------
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Friam mailing list
> >>Friam at redfish.com
> >>http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> >>
> >>
> >>End of Friam Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19
> >>*************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> > Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> > http://www.friam.org
>
> ============================================================
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9:30a-11:30 at ad hoc locations
> Lecture schedule, archives, unsubscribe, etc.:
> http://www.friam.org

--
*PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which
is of type "application/pgp-signature". Don't worry, it is not a
virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this
email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you
may safely ignore this attachment.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 8308 3119 (mobile)
Mathematics 0425 253119 (")
UNSW SYDNEY 2052 R.Standish at unsw.edu.au
Australia http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks
International prefix +612, Interstate prefix 02
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